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+--- Thread: Study on Bonded Goats (/showthread.php?tid=1541)
RE: Study on Bonded Goats - Sanhestar - 07-18-2016
I asked around amongst the bullockies
http://oxnfrau.blogspot.de/
there's no englisch version but maybe google translator can help.....
RE: Study on Bonded Goats - Nanno - 07-18-2016
(07-17-2016, 09:19 PM)Sanhestar Wrote: Cows bond as well, I would say. But as they are also being used less and less as working partners nobody notices.
There's a very interesting blog (German) about a young lady and her oxen who wandered through Germany for several years. She described very detailled the bond between her and the oxen.
That's a very good point! I didn't think about the fact that cattle have been used alongside man for perhaps even longer than horses as a means of hauling and transportation, plowing, and other heavy work.
Even sheep, though they are primarily a fiber and meat source, rely on humans to guard and protect them. Sheep are very helpless creatures in the wild, so I imagine that thousands of years of relying on human protection would cause them to gaze at a person when needing help.
RE: Study on Bonded Goats - hihobaron - 07-18-2016
Sanhestar
Hello Sabin
Thanks for the link to oxen page
Yes I did run it through a translation program and most came out good enough for me to understand.
Loved some of the pictures.
Good looking BIG Oxen very"Stout" Oxen.
You know most of America was settled with OX power including the westward expansion.
OX power here today is literally unknown just like you over there with pack goats.
I am getting a itch and I don't even like cows except for milk and steak.
BTY: I will blaim you if I have to get a OX.
Happy Trails and may you have lots of Cow flops
hihobaron Fuzzy, Blizzard,, Pete, Sam and the Troops in SC
RE: Study on Bonded Goats - Sanhestar - 07-18-2016
I have that same itch :-)
Tried to scratch it a few years back and bought a heifer and a young ox. But they were raised in a half-wild herd and the taming didn't go well.
Should I start that project again - maybe after the goats have died of old age - I will buy calves and bottle-raise them.
RE: Study on Bonded Goats - hihobaron - 07-19-2016
Hello Sanhestar/Sabine
RE:Oxen Itch
One part I noted in the link you sent and I translated was the fact that like raising a good Pack Pack Goat prospect you need to get to them early. She Refers to getting them as Veal Calves. They get to nurse the colostrum out of their dam for about 2 days, until the dam goes into normal milk, then separated and feed some real milk but mostly milk replacer. Housed in a hut individually then sold off at a certain Age as Veal .
That is a normal practice here in the USA to handle unwanted Bull Dairy breed calves.
Some farms will keep them or take them to auction as Dairy Beef, but they all are not well handled/trained.
A very FEW will get to be 4-H Show Steers (Usually Pure bloods) But then Auction off at the end of the show and turned into steak.
The pair of Jersey caves I had yeas ago (Bought to raise for meat) would have been nice Oxen, Bottle Babies, etc
Norman and Heart Burn were their names.
Jerseys are a Smaller breed noted for a high butter fat/cream content in their milk, great for making cheese and "ICE CREAM"
Although as Steers you don't milk them 
Baron Cows.jpg (Size: 25.01 KB / Downloads: 25)
Baron Von Black My Pure Black Arabine Stallion working Holsien Dairy Beef Stees
Have a good day
Happy Trails
hihobaron and the Troops in SC
RE: Study on Bonded Goats - Sanhestar - 07-19-2016
yes, jerseys would be nice but are rather rare here in Germany. I tried my luck with "Rotem Höhenvieh" which could be related to Devon cattle. The mistake I made was assuming that a 6-9 month old heifer (or oxen) could be tamed as easily as a horse of the same age after growing up without much contact to humans.
I haven't read all the newer blog postings but from what I read her new oxen live in Hungary and are from an old Hungarian breed - so maybe more independent than dairy breeds. They also seem to have been handled a bit roughly during seperation. She bought her oxen Lothar when he was older and already trained and Lothar's trainer has experience in raising/training working oxen/cows.
RE: Study on Bonded Goats - hihobaron - 07-19-2016
Sanhestar
In my Experience with horses, and I have worked with Mustangs captured off our Federal Open Range and adopted out. Trained very carefully, one step at a time(Gentled) rather than broken as in the Old West Style, Buck them out.
I am talking riding age horses. They came around very well once they gave you their confidence.
===========================
Now with goats or cattle you have to start very much earlier at birth or very shortly after.
That is my take.
I have seen OLD pictures from here in the USA of calves yolked together that had to be still milk feed, that is how early I am thinking you have to start to develop a good team. Handle,Handle,Handle when young.
Kids usually did it.
Any Breed can be a OX but the heavy body breeds were preferred I think. Durum is one I know of over here that is listed as duel use Milk(Not high output) Meat and Draft. Rare Breed now.
====================
If you like good Western Movies get a DVD of Quigly Down Under. Shot in Australia there are several good sections of Bull Teams (as they call them) even a 6-8 Bull hitch hauling supplies into a Station
(as they call a Ranch headquarters.) It is also a good Shoot them up movie.
Proper weapons for the time fram the movie is shot in. Yes, I am both a Military Historian and Gun Historian.
Main actor is Tom Sellic but there are some other well known actors in it.
Happy Trails
hihobaron Blizzard,Fuzzy, Pete,Sam and the Troops in South Carolina
RE: Study on Bonded Goats - hihobaron - 07-19-2016
Sanhestar
In my Experience with horses, and I have worked with Mustangs captured off our Federal Open Range and adopted out. Trained very carefully, one step at a time(Gentled) rather than broken as in the Old West Style, Buck them out.
I am talking riding age horses. They came around very well once they gave you their confidence.
===========================
Now with goats or cattle you have to start very much earlier at birth or very shortly after.
That is my take.
I have seen OLD pictures from here in the USA of calves yolked together that had to be still milk feed, that is how early I am thinking you have to start to develop a good team. Handle,Handle,Handle when young.
Kids usually did it.
Any Breed can be a OX but the heavy body breeds were preferred I think. Durum is one I know of over here that is listed as duel use Milk(Not high output) Meat and Draft. Rare Breed now.
====================
If you like good Western Movies get a DVD of Quigly Down Under. Shot in Australia there are several good sections of Bull Teams (as they call them) even a 6-8 Bull hitch hauling supplies into a Station
(as they call a Ranch headquarters.) It is also a good Shoot them up movie.
Proper weapons for the time fram the movie is shot in. Yes, I am both a Military Historian and Gun Historian.
Main actor is Tom Sellic but there are some other well known actors in it.
RE: Study on Bonded Goats - Sanhestar - 07-20-2016
I know Quigley Down Under. One of my favorite Western Movie :-). The late Alan Rickman as evil land "baron" is a treat.
RE: Study on Bonded Goats - hihobaron - 07-20-2016
(07-20-2016, 01:59 AM)Sanhestar Wrote: I know Quigley Down Under. One of my favorite Western Movie :-). The late Alan Rickman as evil land "baron" is a treat.Sanhestar
Good: Maybe it is time to watch it again ,I know I run my copy every so often and still enjoy it.
BTY: I had a functional exact copy of the Sharps Rifle Quigley used in the movie and it would do everything the movie showed him using it for. I am a re-loader anyway so the 45-120 Sharps ammo was not a problem to get.
I shot Buffalo/ Bison competition with it out to 1000 yards, did good. Although the Buffalo was kind of hard to eat.
Considering it was steel plate.
The Shap's I had was a Pig to carry around though.
Watch it again and look especially at the Bull Teams
Happy Trails
hihobaron Blizzard,Fuzzy,Pete,Sam and the Troops in SC