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+--- Thread: Decent Mineral Mix 16/8 (2:1 ratio) (/showthread.php?tid=980)
RE: Decent Mineral Mix 16/8 (2:1 ratio) - Nanno - 05-20-2015
Hey Dave,
I just discovered this mineral mix at a feed store in Pueblo. I saw that this one has three different types of copper, and it doesn't have as many oxides and sulfates. At least, it has other types of copper, zinc, manganese, selenium, etc. besides just the oxides and sulfates. What do you think? I bought one tub of it and the goats are currently out there vacuuming it up. I always get nervous about selenium additives in anything, but I don't think I have to worry about it so much this year because of all the moisture.
RE: Decent Mineral Mix 16/8 (2:1 ratio) - Dave-Trinity-Farms - 05-20-2015
Wow thats the first mix I have actually seen that has organic selenium in it. Sadly, that is not something you will wanna get again I dont think. The selenium scale goes from 0.0 to 5.0 With that actually having 3.5 ppm of organic selenium and you being in a high selenium area, I dont know if I would risk it. Thats a shame cause it has some nice alternative mineral bases in it. Id pull it if you have it free choice and ration it to 1/2 oz. per day till gone. OR if you wanted to spend a bit of money. Have the vet out for blood draw and send the samples off to be tested for selenium, copper and zinc levels. Id go ahead and do all of them. A good starting base line is 6 goats. So for a better idea do all your adult animals. If the selenium levels come back as normal low or below, then I could go ahead and mix it half and half with your old stuff. Run this all by your vet and see what he says. I know you had an issue with your horse but if the vet has insight into the higher selenium in your area effecting goats, you may find that you can feed it without worry. But for now, until you know more, Id ration it.
RE: Decent Mineral Mix 16/8 (2:1 ratio) - Nanno - 05-20-2015
Where do you send blood to be tested for mineral levels? I've never actually done that before.
This is one year I don't think I have to worry about selenium (at least not at the moment). We're getting waterlogged out here and are covered up in new grass. (We've got grass springing up in places I didn't think grass could grow!) While we do have a lot of selenium around here, it is down in the subsoil layer that the roots don't usually reach unless we're in extreme drought. We've been out of drought since fall 2013 and all the new plants are shallowly rooted in the upper soil since they haven't had to reach down to find water. Our upper soil is actually low in selenium, so adding it might not be a bad thing right now. But I would love to have blood samples tested to find out!
I will also call Ranch-Way Feeds when I get a chance and see if they've heard about our selenium problem down here. It's a Colorado-based company and they may even make a special mix for animals in selenium-saturated areas. They advertise custom mixes, and I might be able to find enough people in our area that we could get a special order made for a mix with no or reduced selenium. The more I read about this company, the more excited I'm getting!
RE: Decent Mineral Mix 16/8 (2:1 ratio) - Taffy - 05-20-2015
You can get the testing done at CSU in Ft. Collins. They have information about all of the diagnostic things they do on their website.
http://csu-cvmbs.colostate.edu/vdl/Pages/default.aspx
It's excellent the company is Colorado based. You should get better products if they are made for your area.
RE: Decent Mineral Mix 16/8 (2:1 ratio) - Nanno - 05-20-2015
Thanks Taffy! I'll have to give them a call.
RE: Decent Mineral Mix 16/8 (2:1 ratio) - Dave-Trinity-Farms - 05-20-2015
Say, how big is that bag/tub and how much did you pay for it. From my understanding a mix that has organic selenium is suppose to be very spendy.
RE: Decent Mineral Mix 16/8 (2:1 ratio) - Nanno - 05-21-2015
I got the small 15 lb. tub just to try. It cost $15. The 50 lb. bag cost $33.
I just spoke to a nutritionist at Ranch-Way this morning and they will do a custom mix, but the minimum order is one ton. I called Sweeny Feeds in Pueblo to see if they've had any other interest in a selenium-reduced mineral mix, but they said they haven't heard anything. I called CSU about getting blood tests done and it's $26/goat to test for selenium only (yikes!). It's more if I want to test for other mineral levels too.
The frustrating thing is that borderline selenium toxicity looks a darned lot like copper deficiency--dull, faded, and/or thinning hair. Most of my goats' coats look pretty good. Delilah and Nubbin are the only really rough ones right now. But I notice that Finn is never quite as true black on his hindquarters as I know he should be. There's a nagging reddish-brown tone to it, particularly around the edges, that I wish I could get rid of because I know it's not supposed to be there. Cuzco usually has flaky skin these days, and his hair nearly always thins out to an embarrassing degree during the month of June. I wonder if it's from the many years of having a selenium-high diet, and the new plant growth tips him over the edge every spring. It usually resolves itself by mid-July when his hair grows back and his coat gets shiny and sleek again. I almost wonder if I could safely feed minerals all year (no special mixes), but pull them completely in April/May.
RE: Decent Mineral Mix 16/8 (2:1 ratio) - Nanno - 05-22-2015
So Dave, does this look like a good mineral mix in general? I'm strongly considering seeing if I can get enough people interested in a reduced selenium mix that I can order one ton. In your opinion, how does the price compare?
RE: Decent Mineral Mix 16/8 (2:1 ratio) - Dave-Trinity-Farms - 05-23-2015
Over all the numbers are low. But I like that it has usuable mineral bases on the copper and zinc. So in that respect Id say its better then just about any mix that is just oxide and sulfate based. Id use it till I found better thats for sure.
RE: Decent Mineral Mix 16/8 (2:1 ratio) - Nanno - 06-12-2015
I've been doing a lot of research into minerals lately. Cuzco's skin recently started flaking badly and his hair began falling out so rapidly I thought he would go bald! I wasn't sure what to attribute it to, but he was also losing weight so I began feeding him alfalfa pellets with his morning grain again. Usually I only feed those in winter, but I think his teeth have gotten so bad that he can't even chew green grass effectively any more. Two weeks later his coat is coming in black and shiny again, and I think it's the calcium. As I was researching, I read that calcium is vital to absorbing minerals. He also gets a daily dose of Cosequin, which contains glucosamine/chondroitin sulfate and MSM (methylsulfonylmethane). Too much sulfur inhibits copper and selenium absorption. So much for me worrying about selenium overdose! Turns out he's probably not absorbing enough!
A lot of the other goats recently started to get an orange tinge to their coats and I wonder if it could be related to the sulfur block I put out for the horses. In a selenium-rich pasture (as evidenced by the massive amount of gumweed we have this year!), I feel safer with the horses having access to sulfur, but it looks it may be keeping my goats from absorbing enough copper since they have access to that block too. Of course, there may not be enough sulfur in that block to do anything at all, especially since they generally don't seem to favor it that much. But anyway, after seeing the shine return to Cuzco's coat, I think I may start giving all of the goats alfalfa pellets in the morning and see if the extra calcium helps them make better use of their minerals again. Finding the right balance is tricky stuff!