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+--- Thread: keeping goats fit (/showthread.php?tid=1037)
RE: keeping goats fit - rockman - 01-09-2016
(01-09-2016, 10:01 PM)Sanhestar Wrote: well, walking in a packstring is really high art of goat walking. But the exercise alone will be fun and teach you and the goats a lot.
You will spend a lot of time experimenting who walks well behind/in front of who. Take notes which combinations work and which don't.
Halters give you more controll over the head but because of the relatively unstable spine (compared to horses) of goats they can get hurt much easier when struggling against a halter than against a collar. So try, watch and use common sense.
Working a lot with clicker training for about a year, I would train my next packstring something like that:
Teach each goat individually to walk next to me and behind me on a loose lead rope. Teach each goat to walk through lane made from poles layed on the ground (this teaches walking straight from point A to point B). Teach them to walk from one cone to the next cone to a third/fourth, etc. - this gives duration to the behaviour "walk straight".
Take two goats and teach them to stand quietly behind each other. Most likely I would use the pole lane to give the idea of keeping straight. Walk them though the pole lane. Walk them from cone to cone. Observe how this works. Will the second goat struggle, try to overtake the first, butt the first or will the first turn around and threaten no. 2 or try to get away from no. 2, etc.
Repeat with adding goat no. 3, and so on. Change positions in the string as necessary. Praise often for work well done.
Hi that sounds like you have a lot of experience. I have one old goat that loves to try and pull me along so how do you get them to walk beside you. They seem better when they are walking without the leads.
RE: keeping goats fit - Sanhestar - 01-09-2016
does he do this all the time or only in certain situations?
RE: keeping goats fit - rockman - 01-10-2016
(01-09-2016, 10:37 PM)Sanhestar Wrote: does he do this all the time or only in certain situations?
no took him for a walk tonight in the new paddock and he pulled a lot to start but settled down after some time. If he sees food he becomes very determined.
RE: keeping goats fit - Sanhestar - 01-10-2016
ok, need more information, still. Has he at some point been taught to lead? Or was it always more a dragging along? Please give as much details about his previous training, as possible, so that I know where to start with suggestions.
RE: keeping goats fit - Nanno - 01-10-2016
For a goat that pulls I always recommend training them in a halter. They can't lean into a halter and drag you like they can in a collar. Also, I really don't like pulling on a goat's neck since they usually start coughing and choking if they pull even a little bit. I'm not sure what types of halters are available in New Zealand, but I've found that llama halters usually fit goats better than the halters made for goats and/or sheep. Even my big boy, Cuzco, who is a naughty and deeply established collar puller, behaves very well when I lead him in a halter.
RE: keeping goats fit - rockman - 01-10-2016
(01-10-2016, 04:06 AM)Sanhestar Wrote: ok, need more information, still. Has he at some point been taught to lead? Or was it always more a dragging along? Please give as much details about his previous training, as possible, so that I know where to start with suggestions.
I picked (floyd) up 18 months ago. he was seven years old then and hand raised. Very spoilt Toggenburg goat. He is also buy far the smartest and liked to dominate the other 2 year old sannans. That all changed 4 months ago when the saanens got big enough to give him a good hiding.
Most the time he is well behaved but the moment he goes out of the paddock and on a lead he would like to pull you along. My kids don't like to lead him as he is very strong for his age. If we are out on a training walk away from home he is a lot better. Now he is not the top goat he will still try to get in front of the two Saanen but they most often push him back down the line. He will eventually stop pulling on the lead if it is a longer walk until he see's something he wants to eat. I think the main problem is he hasn't been taught how to walk. Was thinking of trying a clicker with rewards?
been watching some you-tube clips last night.
RE: keeping goats fit - rockman - 01-10-2016
(01-10-2016, 09:08 AM)Nanno Wrote: For a goat that pulls I always recommend training them in a halter. They can't lean into a halter and drag you like they can in a collar. Also, I really don't like pulling on a goat's neck since they usually start coughing and choking if they pull even a little bit. I'm not sure what types of halters are available in New Zealand, but I've found that llama halters usually fit goats better than the halters made for goats and/or sheep. Even my big boy, Cuzco, who is a naughty and deeply established collar puller, behaves very well when I lead him in a halter.
thanks I have some halters but the goats seemed to hate them them when I put them on. I guess I never gave them time to get used to them. That might be a good place to start. will give it a try.
RE: keeping goats fit - Nanno - 01-10-2016
Yes, goats always HATE halters when you first put them on!
Expect them to shake their heads, fight, struggle, and generally try to get away from you the first few times. They may even come running to you and then stop and run the other way when they see that you have a halter in your hand. Persevere! Reward, reward, reward, and pretty soon they'll be pushing their noses into them. I like to reassure them a lot at first and I'll pause to give a treat when it's only half buckled. But once they've been haltered a few days in a row I stop putting up with the head shaking and I get firm about holding still until everything is buckled. It's good for them to accept having their heads handled and controlled, especially if they have horns.
RE: keeping goats fit - Sanhestar - 01-10-2016
Introducing to halter (or re-introducing) with clicker-training.
FIRST: introduce the clicker. For goats I strongly recommend introduction with protected contact = put the goat behind a sturdy fence and teach clicker manners first because you get a goat that mobbs even more without teaching manners.
Halter introduction:
present halter - goat shows interest - click & treat (CT)
present halter - goat sniffs halter - CT
present halter - goat shows continued interest - CT
present halter with open nose opening - goat touches halter - CT fed through opening in such a way that the goat must reach through the opening
Repeat last step as often as necessary until the goat leaves the nose inside the opening
Present halter with open nose opening - goat puts head inside - CT
Slice down the other movements, like putting the neck strap over, closing the halter, etc.
Teaching to lead:
introduce a target to follow (your hand, targetstick, small cone, etc.)
present target - goat shows interest - CT
present target- goat touches target - CT
present target a little bit away - goat makes a small step towards target - CT
present target a bit further away - goat makes another step - CT
now you have established a behavior where the goat will follow an object when you move without needing to pull the goat along on a lead rope.
Play with target, put a lead rope on the goat (but no pulling), a saddle, a halter, a load.
Make yourself a target = use your body as a marker for the goat where to walk. Click for walking next to you. Be specific, WHEN you click and be constant resp. teach individual commands for different leading positions.
Head next to you
Shoulder next to you
behind you
If the goat pulls, stop, wait, reward for assuming correct position.
Take into consideration that going outside, going away from the herd is stressfull and prey animals cope with stress by moving faster, hence the pulling when you take him out.
Keep your training close to herd/familiar surroundings for as long as he needs to trust you. This can mean that you will walk up and down a street for a week or so.
Pulling for food: stop, let him wait, establish a behaviour f.e. a look that he can offer to "ask" for a browse. This is right now a nuisance for you but you can turn it into a motivator. Allow browsing as a treat after offering a behaviour that you wanted, like standing politely or following quietly.
RE: keeping goats fit - Sanhestar - 01-10-2016
if you want me to go into more detail regarding single steps, just let me know.