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RE: Pacific Crest Trail - Nanno - 07-11-2017
Yeah, I figured you might wait on talking to the breeder until you have all the info. That's smart. If there is any genetic link she needs to know, and if parasites caused the lung problems she should know this too so she can adjust her worming protocols. I'd be interested to know what specific parasite(s) the vet thinks caused the fetal lung damage.
RE: Pacific Crest Trail - GoldenTreePackGoats - 07-11-2017
(07-11-2017, 09:28 AM)Nanno Wrote: Yeah, I figured you might wait on talking to the breeder until you have all the info. That's smart. If there is any genetic link she needs to know, and if parasites caused the lung problems she should know this too so she can adjust her worming protocols. I'd be interested to know what specific parasite(s) the vet thinks caused the fetal lung damage.
I reached out to the vet that had the really thorough information on what can happen to the lungs via parasites. I will let you know what they say.
I got Yukon's fecal back and his strongyle egg count was 2300 eggs/gram!
I just gave the vets that information along with my deworming protocol since everyone was just dewormed twice in May.
First with Valbazen, then again 21 days later, in the middle of that I gave Doramectin inj, and again 10 days later because of ongoing lice issues, used corid powder too. I keep the pen as clean as I can, I haven't set up a rotating pasture/paddock yet but I'm pretty shocked. I will be sending fecals out on everyone in the next few days to see how the parasite load is in everyone else of if his immune system has been compromised for some time.
It is very sad, after being hooked up to IV fluids for 8 hours in the shop yesterday Huck became really anxious and stressed so I thought it best to put him back in the pen with his buddies. For once he wanted to go back. He wagged his tail and did his little grunting noise, pacing around, I think looking for Yukon. When he was no where to be found Huck turned to look at me, directly in the eyes, and grunted quietly again. They had never been separated since birth, and Huck being a little more docile Yukon always stuck up for him.
When we loaded Yukon into the back of my friends jeep to be taken for cremation I brought Huck to see him. I don't know how it works for them but I didn't think it would hurt. As soon as Huck saw his head he ran up to it grunting and wagging his tail and until it slowed and stopped. He sniffed, turned to look at me with his big ears out, take a step closer to Yukon and then pulled away. I may be humanizing it in my head. My herd as a whole is upset, since Yukon was number 2 in the pecking order everyone has been boxing around bashing on each other. My heart isn't only broken for me but for Huck as well, I hope he can pull through I really don't want to lose both of my first boys.
RE: Pacific Crest Trail - Nanno - 07-11-2017
It takes time for a herd to adjust when a goat goes missing. I'm sure Huck misses his brother, but he's probably happy to be allowed outside. Hopefully it won't take him long to make new friends and find his place in the herd again. I sincerely hope he pulls through for you. You've had enough heartache as it is. For me, losing a goat is emotionally harder than losing a dog or even a horse at this point. There's something about them that people who haven't owned goats don't generally understand because "they're just livestock." But they aren't livestock. They're our buddies. I'm glad we have places online where there are other people who understand this.
I don't think there's anything wrong with letting an animal see the body of a loved one who passed. I think it helps them understand. When my horse's stablemate died of colic a few years ago, she was absolutely frantic for over 24 hours and churned a trench along the fence calling for her because she knew the other horse was sick when she went away. The horse was put down the next morning at the college stable and I helped the owner cut hair and such before I went to check on my horse. My horse sniffed me all over from head to foot and I could tell that she knew from the smell that her friend had died and she immediately quit looking for her. She was sad, but she was no longer frantic and she stopped calling and pacing and gazing over the fence. That said, I would not put an animal down in front of its buddies. When we put Cuzco down, we made sure everyone else was locked away in the pen and too far to see what was happening. We don't want our animals to know that we sometimes end their lives. Even if we know it's a merciful decision, I don't expect them to understand that, nor do I want to remind them that we are a predator species.
RE: Pacific Crest Trail - GoldenTreePackGoats - 07-11-2017
I agree, they should never see the act of humans euthanizing one of their own due to the predator - prey symbolism, they won't understand.
Huck is starting to enjoy all of the attention. He gets bored with the IV fluids since the best way I can do it is tieing him to a post with 24 inches of rope, and hanging a bag of fluids above him. I have hay to occupy him and pluck branches from trees to chew on but he gets really agitated if we are in the shop for too long. When I was getting the follow up blood sample he was terrible. The biggest pain in the butt. I wanted to use the IV catheter to take the blood (less pokes) but he wouldn't stop manipulating his body in whatever way he could to not let me do it. I couldn't figure out why, nothing looked painful. I guess long story short, I had to pull his catheter out because he put a kink in it and draw blood from his neck anyways.
In my mind the blood work was going to be black and white, good or bad, but it was both. His BUN dropped from 44 to 36, creatinine down to .7, but his CBC showed a continued decline of hemoglobin and hematocrit. I emailed the results but haven't gotten any response yet. I'll let you all know what the verdict is when I get it. Huck's behavior, and sassiness gives me hope for him.
Yukon was just as loyal as my dog. Being a prey species he spoke a different language but none the less if he wouldn't of made a mess out of my house I would of let him in. We goat people are special people. I wish everyone could have a glimpse of our experience and love of goats to help the perspective of "just livestock" change.
RE: Pacific Crest Trail - Nanno - 07-12-2017
I'm glad Huck is acting sassy. I hope he continues to misbehave--it's a great sign! I worry most when the goat I'm treating puts up little or no fight.
We let our goats in the house if they have good potty manners. Some of them won't potty in the house at all. I like to set my milking stanchion up in the basement during the winter so I can milk out of the wind in the warmth of the wood stove. In two years, none of my milk maids have yet to make a mess. Sputnik also won't potty in the house, but Finn is a different story. Finn gets overexcited and lets loose about ten times in two minutes and has to be put straight back out. However, Phil has been training him to potty on command, so maybe at some point we can teach him to control himself in indoor settings. That would be fun because then maybe he could be certified as a service animal and visit hospitals and nursing homes. I'd love to have a harness set-up where I could hitch a well-mannered goat to a wheelchair and give rides to people who can't walk.
RE: Pacific Crest Trail - GoldenTreePackGoats - 07-12-2017
(07-12-2017, 01:52 PM)Nanno Wrote: I'm glad Huck is acting sassy. I hope he continues to misbehave--it's a great sign! I worry most when the goat I'm treating puts up little or no fight.
We let our goats in the house if they have good potty manners. Some of them won't potty in the house at all. I like to set my milking stanchion up in the basement during the winter so I can milk out of the wind in the warmth of the wood stove. In two years, none of my milk maids have yet to make a mess. Sputnik also won't potty in the house, but Finn is a different story. Finn gets overexcited and lets loose about ten times in two minutes and has to be put straight back out. However, Phil has been training him to potty on command, so maybe at some point we can teach him to control himself in indoor settings. That would be fun because then maybe he could be certified as a service animal and visit hospitals and nursing homes. I'd love to have a harness set-up where I could hitch a well-mannered goat to a wheelchair and give rides to people who can't walk.
That would be so cool a service goat to pull people who can't walk around. Goats heal the soul.
I can't imagine any of my herd in my home except Rafiki, the others want to eat everything! I don't get to work with my does as much as my wethers and I can tell the difference in their behavior and level of respect. Maybe now that it has been suggested none of my goats leave for 6 weeks I will get to work with them more. Of course I'm not making any decisions until this illness is over and gone but if I breed any of my does I'm sure I will be in the shop with a space heater on those cold days.
RE: Pacific Crest Trail - GoldenTreePackGoats - 07-14-2017
Well this isn't a final update but the preliminary results of my viral panel are all showing negative, lyme is negative, anaplasmosis is pending, fecals pending. Anaplasmosis is rare but it seems so fitting to their symptoms. I'm really disappointed and craving answers. Huck is still not well, and my doe Kivuli isn't either. There is a theme of symptoms, and of out of range blood values but nothing is being confirmed. The vets are almost hoping it's anaplasmosis. Another thought that was brought up was a parasite that doesn't usually choose goats as a host, they said if that is the case it's nearly impossible to find. But anyways I've been instructed to treat for anaplasmosis if there is the slightest bit of decline from anybody, since the test results won't be back until wednesday.
After 2 weeks, I'm exhausted. If I could have one wish it would be to go back 3 weeks ago and try again. I miss my Yukon.
RE: Pacific Crest Trail - MosesBrowning - 07-14-2017
Best wishes for Huck & Kivuli. I hope they recover soon. It must be so frustrating to still not have a diagnosis/cause.
RE: Pacific Crest Trail - Nanno - 07-15-2017
I really hope you get some answers. I also really, REALLY hope that Huck and Kivuli recover. I'm with you on the "if only I could go back..." sentiment. How many times have I said that over the years? My latest being that awful day in May when we lost Tigerlily's newborn. I'd felt him kicking just days before and was so excited. To eagerly wait five months to welcome a new life and then lose him on delivery is just heartbreaking. Being a farmer is terribly hard sometimes. Thank goodness the joy outweighs the tragedy.
RE: Pacific Crest Trail - GoldenTreePackGoats - 07-17-2017
I'm sorry about Tigerlily's newborn, I'm thinking about breeding my does this year and just thinking of waiting for 5 months to have a life lost is crushing.
No diagnosis, and waiting on the pending anaplasmosis test is frustrating. Anaplasmosis is rare around here, so regardless of the symptoms matching up 100% the test may not be reliable. I guess it's hard to catch it through testing. I've been able to do frequent CBC's for Huck and Kivu, through out the past week and it's obvious that there is something eating up some of their WBC. Their neutrophils should be 30%-40% and Huck's is 12%, Kivu's 10%. At this point we are going to treat them before the results are back, starting tomorrow. Kivu's CBC had some interesting findings on the pathology report that pointed toward anaplasmosis, or a virus, but said that due to the EDTA in the test tube it couldn't be a viable source. Tomorrow I have someone coming over to help me get some slides made of Kivu's whole blood, straight from the vein to see if it was the chemical or if what they saw is actually happening. It sucks because I want to treat them with oxytetracycline now but I don't want to compromise the only sample that could give me an answer. After I hear from the pathologist about her CBC, and get Yukon's anaplasmosis test back, regardless of the results, I will have to let it go and accept that I saved 7 of 8 goats in my herd. And that Yukon will always live in our hearts, and will continue to travel the trail with us in spirit.
It's been 16 days, and my brain is consumed with it, and the lack of answers. I'm trying to look forward, and that's tough too. It's been suggested that no goats leave for 6 weeks to not pass on whatever illness it may be. That means my only confirmed packer in training Pluto will be completely out of shape and all the weekly conditioning we did will be gone. Obviously I'm not bringing any goats into this mess anytime soon, but I have considered breeding a couple of my does this year. Ironically my buckling was supposed to get castrated on July 5th but since everyone was sick the vet said to reschedule. I wish I had more of an eye for pack goat conformation, maybe i'll reach out to you guys at some point. It would be nice to get opinions on the match ups.