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RE: What did you do today? - hihobaron - 05-02-2016
Hello Saltlick
Goat Treats I am using on Fuzzy as well as the big boy's.
Big Boy's get Apple and Oat Horse Treat Cookies. (They are here anyway for the horses.)
Fuzzy is not big enough to eat them yet or learn to like them.
What I am using for him is Alafa Pellets mixed 50/50 with goat pellet feed, ( Same thing the the Big Boy's get)
All of them like the Alafa Pellets or the Goat pellet as a treat anyway ( read that as watch your fingers when feeding)
=======================
Use a 6-8 foot Horse lead, on him. "Smooth" braided nylon type work good.
You can get "close" enough without getting in side the "Threat Zone" That is what makes them bolt and triggers the flight/flight reflex.Step on the lead then go on with training to lead and come with treats.
I have a lot brush around BC1 that the boy's free range in so far Fuzzy has not got tangled up one reason is the size of the rope I use 5/8" diameter and it is a slick type of rope.
RE:Getting tangled up/hung up that is why I devote the time right now when Fuzzy is "Learning" how to deal with restraint and the rope dragging to watch/keep track of what the boy's are doing.
I have seen him figure out how to unwarp himself from a tangle or if the rope is stuck around a tree/bush.
Watching goats at this point takes time but it is worth it.
This is when they learn not to fight if they get tangled up on the trail. Stand and Bleet/Scream for you to come and fix things.
Happy Trails
hihobaron Fuzzy, Pete,and Sam
BTY: my sign off for the goat boy's is by alphabetical not by seniority or skills.
I am Top Goat always
RE: What did you do today? - Nanno - 05-02-2016
He's CUTE, Saltlick! How old is he? I had to put about a 15-foot rope on Cuzco for the first few days because he was very much the same way as your little guy. He'd jump away like a deer if I came within several yards of him, and the only reason I was able to get close enough to grab the rope was because he bonded instantly to my horse and would follow her into the barn. I thought the long rope would have to stay for a couple of weeks, but I was surprised how quickly I was able to downsize him to just a catch rope about 16" long. Treats did not work for Cuzco at all--he never developed a taste for them until he was about 4-5 years old. He did learn to eat grain after I'd had him about a week, so I used that instead of treats. I spent a lot of time just holding him in my lap until he would relax and stop shaking (sometimes he would tremble for a half hour or more before he settled). After about two weeks I was able to remove the catch rope.
Here's Cuzco with his short catch rope about a week after we got him:
I'm sure it won't take long to bring your new little guy around, especially when he sees how much your other goats love you. One thing to watch out for is that they don't bully him when you're around. He could learn to associate you with getting clobbered by the other goats and this will undo your bonding progress. I had to use a water gun on Cuzco for a while because he was intimidating a shy new goat every time it would try to come near us and it was making him even more shy.
RE: What did you do today? - Nanno - 05-02-2016
Hihobaron said:
Quote:Big Boy's get Apple and Oat Horse Treat Cookies. (They are here anyway for the horses.)
Those wouldn't happen to be "Dobbin's Delights" brand would they? Those were Cuzco's absolute favorites and the one thing that finally won him over to eating treats. We fed those to him for years. Unfortunately I think they are the reason his teeth wore down by nine years old. Those things were hard as rocks!
RE: What did you do today? - hihobaron - 05-02-2016
Hello Nanno and All
RE: Goat Treats.
I don't remember the brand of Apple & Oat horse cookies. I buy them by the 20 pound bag, dump the bag in one of my feed barrels and throw the bag away. I get them at TSC. They are fairly soft. Horses like them they smell nice.
I also use a hand full of low carb horse feed to Pete and Sam when they come to call while I am working horses.
Around BC1 were "Their" Alfa and goat pellets are they get the above when they come to call out of the brush.
Fuzzy likes the above well. All will eat out of my hand (Note to Self
Watch my fingers. Boy's will get grabby.Yes, I am bad I carry a belt pouch with feed in it like they use for dog training. Goat feed in my case.
Or if I am in BDU's one of the pouch pockets has treats of some sort in it. The goats are good at finding the treat pocket.
NEW Topic: I have seen talk about "BANDING " horns to make them die off?
Anyone with experience doing it and what were the results? How good a job did banding do?(Horns)
Fuzzy's horns are to big to burn out, not going to do surgery on them to remove them.
He may end up being my first horned goat still. It is a coin toss right now.
I am going to band geld him by the end of this week. Suggestions appreciated for all of the above.
I have banded calves as well cut horses and even a donkey jack.
Pete was cut last September on a milking stand at about a year old. No Problems.
Is there "ANY" information that gelding a buck goat improves their growth rate like with Cows?
Aside from the fact that Billy's run off weight during RUT?
All Male intact animals do during breeding season I know and have seen it with my Stallions.
===================================
Darn!!!!!!!! Pete and Sam to day.
Fuzzy was nice and comfy on the goat bench next to me relaxing. I was to in a recliner chair both of them came after him and Fuzzy had no choice but to jump on me to get away, those little pointy feet hurt!!!!!
Pete and Sam got used for target practice. Yes, for now I always have a Air Soft pistol close to hand.
I gave both of them what for with a couple rounds each.
They were very "polite" and came back so we all could get a good afternoon nap. Then it started raining.
Oh Well, we need the rain, but there was no problems when I headed to goat shed. Goats Melt in the rain right?
Happy Trails
hihobaron, Fuzzy, Pete,Sam and the rest of the Troops here in South Carolina
RE: What did you do today? - Nanno - 05-02-2016
It's generally recommended to wait at least three months before wethering a goat. This give the urinary tract more time to develop, because blockage by urinary calculi is one of the leading causes of death in wethers. Some people recommend waiting as long as 5-7 months to wether them.
If you get him cut, make sure the vet uses sutures to close the blood vessels and not just crimps like they use on horses. While you can get away with crimping, there is a much higher risk of bleed-out and it can happen super fast (ask Charlie Horse about that one).
Some people have good luck with banding horns and others do not. It is a long process and is quite painful for the first few days no matter how you do it. Many goats become skittish and head-shy because of this. The horns will be sensitive for the entire 1-2 months as the bands chew through. They will ooze throughout the process so it is best done when fly season is over. Long story short: if you want a hornless goat your best bet is to buy one that is disbudded or naturally polled. Others may feel differently, but I personally would never consider banding a goat's horns unless he actually proved dangerous with them. It may be necessary in some cases, but it is not very nice.
RE: What did you do today? - hihobaron - 05-03-2016
Hello Nanno
Thanks for the info on banding.
I think fuzzy is going to keep his horns.
The Family Jewels can wait till fall/ mid-winter. Maybe Prepper Camp in September were Pete lost his jewels in a demo.
I always liked when I had a colt to do, to wait till they were a close to a year old.
Do them in the winter with no bugs around and snow on the ground.
Happy Trails
hihobaron, Fuzzy,Pete and Sam
RE: What did you do today? - Saltlick - 05-03-2016
(05-02-2016, 08:25 AM)Nanno Wrote: He's CUTE, Saltlick! How old is he? I had to put about a 15-foot rope on Cuzco for the first few days because he was very much the same way as your little guy. He'd jump away like a deer if I came within several yards of him, and the only reason I was able to get close enough to grab the rope was because he bonded instantly to my horse and would follow her into the barn. I thought the long rope would have to stay for a couple of weeks, but I was surprised how quickly I was able to downsize him to just a catch rope about 16" long. Treats did not work for Cuzco at all--he never developed a taste for them until he was about 4-5 years old. He did learn to eat grain after I'd had him about a week, so I used that instead of treats. I spent a lot of time just holding him in my lap until he would relax and stop shaking (sometimes he would tremble for a half hour or more before he settled). After about two weeks I was able to remove the catch rope.
Here's Cuzco with his short catch rope about a week after we got him:
I'm sure it won't take long to bring your new little guy around, especially when he sees how much your other goats love you. One thing to watch out for is that they don't bully him when you're around. He could learn to associate you with getting clobbered by the other goats and this will undo your bonding progress. I had to use a water gun on Cuzco for a while because he was intimidating a shy new goat every time it would try to come near us and it was making him even more shy.
Thanks Nanno! I had no idea Cuzco was that wild when you got him, so this gives me hope! He lets me get withing a few feet of him, he walked up to the fence when I had hay in my hand and let me touch his head. He comes pretty close when he's near my other goat who I'm keeping him penned up with (he's pretty gentle). He still bolts if I reach towards him, but when I caught him today he didn't scream in my arms this time, so that was good. I think there's hope! He's supposedly three months, but he's tiny, or at least I think he is. I think he's not going to get to pack goat size... Oh well. I let him out today to roam the pasture, he learned to graze on the very short weeds, so that's good! Was able to trap him back in the small enclosure when his buddy the shaggy goat walked in there. I'll buy some grain tomorrow and see if he takes to it. Still no name.
RE: What did you do today? - Saltlick - 05-03-2016
(05-03-2016, 04:36 AM)hihobaron Wrote: Hello Nanno
Thanks for the info on banding.
I think fuzzy is going to keep his horns.
The Family Jewels can wait till fall/ mid-winter. Maybe Prepper Camp in September were Pete lost his jewels in a demo.
I always liked when I had a colt to do, to wait till they were a close to a year old.
Do them in the winter with no bugs around and snow on the ground.
Happy Trails
hihobaron, Fuzzy,Pete and Sam
The shaggy goat I bought a couple of years ago had had his horns banded at some point. One was shorter than the other, and the longer one had an indented ring around it where they had banded it but it never fell off. Just a couple of months ago he broke it off and it was bleeding a lot. I felt so bad for him, it was awful. Now his horns are even, but that must have hurt...
RE: What did you do today? - Charlie Horse - 05-03-2016
Know what I do with baby goats to bond them to people? I make them sleep on my bed for a few hours each night for a week. Or camp out back and make them stay on the sleeping bag. Nothing promotes trust in a little critter better than that. Its some kind of natural brain-programming hack. The trick is to get them OUT once they wake up so they don't pee on ya. So far I've been 100% successful.
RE: What did you do today? - hihobaron - 05-04-2016
Hello Charlie Horse
RE: Bonding with young goats also new Puppies.
Puppies First: I have always had a new puppy in bed with me the first few days to bond(After weaning) My adult dogs are bed hogs.
Goats: I can see the worth of napping with a goat as you describe.
I do it a "Little" different here though.
Granted when the Stow Away goats showed up here they were much older than Saltlick's and had been handled well.
Not from a pack goat prospective just the way the owner treats all her goats.
======================================
I helped them bond to me by just hanging out with them.
They free range in the brush around BC-1 and I can not walk up to horse barn without "Escort"
Now, just about whenever I settle down for a nap with the radio on or a audio book running on the deck the
"goat boys " come running and settle in around, they will get up and go off station to browse or do their "Duty"
I call that respect for their bedding area and me, no wet sleeping bags.
===========================================
Fuzzy the new boy on the block, is learning from the Old Boy's that it is more fun to be part of my herd than to run.
He was a squirmy bundle when I first caught him to bring him into BC1.
Now he has learned to jump up on the goat bench,settle down next to me when I take a nap on the deck.
Steal the deck chair to lay down in, if I am not in it, he is still small enough it is comfy for him.
The big boy's are allowing him to get close to them with out running him off.
That means less target practices for me with my air soft pistols on them. (Big Boys)
Oh well, behaved/herd oriented goat versus targets, I'll take the well behaved goats.
They are staying in a group when they go out to browse in the brush
Just yesterday I caught all three and my dog Max "snuggled up" in the shade under my trailer napping.
I had to process a bunch of digital pictures to send out of storm damage here on the computer, it took a while.
I got that done walked out and all 4 of them came out from under the trailer. They were waiting for me to come out.
So I had to rest my eye's with a nap and listen to a audio book. I kicked back in the deck chair put a audio book on,
(I do not use ear buds) so whatever I play is on speakers. I do the same on a hike with the boy's. Unless I want quiet.
Everybody gathered round and went back to relax mode.
So here is my question to you CHARLIE HORSE dose napping on our deck with Fuzzy next to me and the rest of the critters relaxing around me "Qualify" and sleeping bag time?
===============================================
Fuzzy Story:
I put a tarp over the deck chair to protect it.
Fuzzy spent a good 15 minutes trying to get the tarp off using his horns,head completely under the the tarp, biting it trying to pull it off "HIS" chair. Nothing worked , he finally just jumped into the chair and tromped the tarp down so he could lay down. I was in a different chair watching and got some pictures I have yet to process.
There should be some good ones of "Goat Determination"
Happy Trails
hihobaron, Fuzzy,Pete,and Sam