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New to Pack Goats and Bottle Babies - jorgkris - 03-31-2017
Hi everyone, new to goats here and looking for some help. We love the idea of getting into pack goats, and just got three cute little bottle baby buckling oberhaslis.
I have been scouring the many forum topics here, and I can see that I could spend a lifetime and never read the end of it all, so I apologize if I have questions here that have been asked in other threads.
1. My bottle babies are about 2-3 weeks old, we came home with some goats milk, but that is all gone. Then we gave them some regular whole cows milk from the store, and now we are mixing half cows milk and half goat milk replacer mix. One of them is about 13 lbs, another about 15, and the other about 17lbs. We have been feeding them all 4 times a day with about 6 oz per feed for the two lighter boys, and 7 oz per feeding for the bigger one. They seem like they could eat more, but I don’t want to over feed. The bigger one seems more attracted to the grass and other growing things around than the others. Are we doing things right? Is there any advice anyone can give us in this regard? Should we feed more? Less? Something different? Things to watch for??? Do they need access to water to drink as well?
2. We just had a big windstorm, and their little shelter was damaged slightly, and I noticed afterwards that one of the babies has a small gash in the back of his leg just above the dewclaw looking thing (a couple inches above his hoof). What would I do about this? It bled a bit, but stopped on its own before I even found it. He doesn’t seem to be favoring the leg at all…
3. What should I be preparing for in the near future? What vaccines do they HAVE to have, and what vaccines are recommended, and what vaccines should I NOT give them? Deworming? How often should they get medicines and treatments? When should I plan on having them Castrated? Will I need to take them to a vet to have it done, or could I band them?
4. At what age will I need to start trimming their hooves?
5. When will the stringers from their umbilical cords fall off? Should I trim them?
6. My children love to play with them, hold them on their laps, carry them around, let them suck on their fingers, etc. Is this good for the goats, or is it going to teach them bad habits? What and when should we start doing to train them to be good pack goats? Can they be trained to not jump on people, trained to not whine, trained to not chew on people’s clothes, trained to come to their names when called, etc? How?
7. Our yard has a wide variety of flowering plants. What is a list of plants can be harmful to baby goats, and goats in general that I should try to get rid of?
8. What are some typical medical issues that we could encounter with the goats that we should be prepared for, and what types medicines and first aid equipment should we have on hand?
9. Nutritionally, what should I have to feed them at the different stages of their growth? Mineral Blocks? Salt supplements? Grain? Pellets? Grass hay? Alfalfa hay? We have about a half acre fenced area that they are in now that is more or less regular lawn style grass (somewhat weedy grass), so we are expecting to have to supplement their diet in some regard.
Thanks for the help!!!
RE: New to Pack Goats and Bottle Babies - Nanno - 03-31-2017
Hello and welcome! Lots of great questions here !
1. I don't know much about bottle kids so I'll let someone else answer your questions about how much to feed. They should have access to water but don't expect them to drink much for quite some time. However, you want them to get curious and start teaching themselves how to drink. Use a small bucket so they can't fall in and drown.
2. Sounds like the cut should be fine. Just keep an eye on it and only treat it if there's heat, swelling, soreness, or other signs of infection.
3. CD+T vaccines are a must. Some people don't vaccinate their goats, but this one is really important in my opinion. It's cheap and it rarely causes adverse reactions. I vaccinate mine at 2 months and give a booster 3-4 weeks later. After that it's just an annual shot. I don't recommend any other vaccinations unless you have a particular good reason. Deworming is a very individual thing. It depends a lot on your area (what worms are prevalent in your climate?), how intensely your pasture gets grazed, and how naturally resistant your goats are to parasites. Some goats almost never get worms and others seem to get them on a fairly regular basis. Check the color of the inner eyelids. They should be a nice healthy dark pink or reddish color. If they're pale, they probably have a worm load. Coccidiosis is something that often affects kids. I don't treat for parasites unless I suspect a problem. Other people stick with a regimen. Do what works for you. Unthriftiness, dull coat, pale eyelids, clumpy poo, low energy, and slow or stunted growth are all signs of parasite problems. Finally, you can band the boys yourself if you don't wait too long. We did ours around three months. I would not do it earlier than that. However, if they are good growers don't wait much longer than three months or they'll be too big for your bander!
4. Start trimming hooves when they start looking long. This is a very individual thing and depends a lot on how much exercise they get and on what type of terrain. Ours do a lot of self-trimming on rocks and rarely have to be trimmed before six months old.
5. Leave the umbilical cords alone. They'll drop off on their own in a couple more weeks or so.
6. Play with those babies as much as you want, and let them climb on you until they get too big for you to be comfortable (usually around 4-6 weeks old). Then start gently correcting them by pushing them down when they put their feet on you. Be careful about letting them suck on fingers. Those little teeth are very sharp! I do not let kids chew on my clothes. A little curious nibbling is ok, but they should not be allowed to pull on hair and clothing or get pushy and destructive. If your goats have horns, I strongly urge you to make sure everyone playing with babies is wearing sunglasses. Baby goats have sharp horns and they are very quick and easily excited. They don't yet understand horn manners, so it's up to you to make sure not to get whacked or poked by mistake. Goats are smart and they'll learn their names if you use them. They will also learn not to whine as they get older and learn patience.
7. I don't know much about poisonous plants, but the folks at your local agricultural extension office do! It's worth giving them a call.
8. Bloat, pneumonia, and injuries are not uncommon with goats. Urinary calculi is always a concern for wethers, so a lot of folks feed ammonium chloride on a regular basis. A thermometer is important to have. I like to keep a good reference book with normal vital signs handy. Dawn dish soap is good for treating bloat. Bandages and vetwrap, blood stop powder, activated charcoal (for poisoning), penicillin, banamine, BlueKote wound spray, iodine, alcohol, needles and syringes, probiotic paste or powder, and Vitamin B complex are the things that immediately come to mind in my first aid cabinet. I have a lot more than that, but I'm thinking of the things I've had to use on a semi-regular basis (except the charcoal--I only had to use that once, but I was really glad to have it when I did!). Penicillin and banamine have to be gotten from a vet.
9. Green, leafy alfalfa is a good choice. Mine also get good grass hay depending on how much grass is available in their pasture. I don't usually feed by boys grain unless they are looking thin during a heavy growth spurt. If I can't get alfalfa hay I try to feed some alfalfa pellets every day to keep their calcium intake up. This is in addition to their grass hay, not in place of it. Goats should have access to a good loose mineral. Blocks are too hard and many goats don't absorb enough from them as a result. Look for minerals made for goats or cattle, not sheep. Sheep minerals don't have enough copper. I believe Manna Pro makes a good goat mineral, but there may be better ones available depending on your area.
Best of luck, and keep coming with the questions! Post photos of your crew sometime!
RE: New to Pack Goats and Bottle Babies - Dave-Trinity-Farms - 04-02-2017
1. My bottle babies are about 2-3 weeks old, we came home with some goats milk, but that is all gone. Then we gave them some regular whole cows milk from the store, and now we are mixing half cows milk and half goat milk replacer mix. One of them is about 13 lbs, another about 15, and the other about 17lbs. We have been feeding them all 4 times a day with about 6 oz per feed for the two lighter boys, and 7 oz per feeding for the bigger one. They seem like they could eat more, but I don’t want to over feed. The bigger one seems more attracted to the grass and other growing things around than the others. Are we doing things right? Is there any advice anyone can give us in this regard? Should we feed more? Less? Something different? Things to watch for??? Do they need access to water to drink as well?
Answer: You need to be feeding them more. I have been growing babies for many many years. I let them eat until they are finished. Even going so far as to put the nipple back in their mouths 2 more times after they seem done. Just to pack that much more milk into em
But I start that from the day they are born. Increase the amount over the next week till they are eating till they stop. Can drop a feeding when you do this and feed just 3 times a day. Have good alfalfa in front of them even now so they can nibble. Have loose mineral mix available for them as well. Yes they need access to water even as babies.2. We just had a big windstorm, and their little shelter was damaged slightly, and I noticed afterwards that one of the babies has a small gash in the back of his leg just above the dewclaw looking thing (a couple inches above his hoof). What would I do about this? It bled a bit, but stopped on its own before I even found it. He doesn’t seem to be favoring the leg at all…
Answer: I am sure you already have, but if not, fix their shelter. Important for them to have a dry place outta the rain / snow. Can spray it with say blu kote. But just keep an eye on it. Should be fine. BUT an open wound is a good entrance point for bacteria. CD/T vaccine would be a very good idea now. Which leads into the answer to your third question. CD/T vaccine now. Again in a month. Can do it again at 6 months old then a year. Then yearly booster there after. Look into doing a 8 or 9 way for a little better protection. Thats about the only vaccine we worry about. We do give 1/2 cc of multimin90 sub Q when they are born. We us it in place of the bo-se. Deworming can start as soon as a month old or as late as 6 months before you do your first round. That depends upon how wormy you think they are. If they are growing good with no coat issues. Good poops. No coughing. Then you can put it off even further. How you worm will have to be decided by you. I do suggest you use Cydectin Oral Sheep drench. Its a very good wormer.
Castration answer: minimum 3 months, aim for 5 months or more if you can.
4. Start trimming hooves when they start looking long. This is a very individual thing and depends a lot on how much exercise they get and on what type of terrain. Ours do a lot of self-trimming on rocks and rarely have to be trimmed before six months old.
Answer: first trim will typically start around 6 months of age. But if you can build them toys to play on that keeps their hooves ground down better. The best idea is a A frame structure they can run up and down that is covered in the roofing shingles or the roll.
5. Leave the umbilical cords alone. They'll drop off on their own in a couple more weeks or so
Answer. Yes, if its dry you can trim it back to a 1/2 of the belly.
6. My children love to play with them, hold them on their laps, carry them around, let them suck on their fingers, etc. Is this good for the goats, or is it going to teach them bad habits? What and when should we start doing to train them to be good pack goats? Can they be trained to not jump on people, trained to not whine, trained to not chew on people’s clothes, trained to come to their names when called, etc? How?
Answer: Just dont hold them on their backs. This can twist their gut and end up killing them. Most of the issues you listed will go away as they age. By a year old, they are more on eye level with you and will be less likely to jump up. They just want to be eye level with you now. They use their mouths as fingers. They are exploring things by chewing on em. Again, will get better with age. But light taps on the end of the nose will help in teaching em not to do things you dont want them too.
7. Our yard has a wide variety of flowering plants. What is a list of plants can be harmful to baby goats, and goats in general that I should try to get rid of
Answer: Flowering plants can be very very dangerous to goats. You need to look up and research which ones you have and if they are harmful to livestock.
As for the last two questions, cant add anything to Nanno's answers. I will say that goat nutrition is super important. If you feed crap hay or loose minerals, then you can expect to have crap goats. Quality feed will grow you a better goat. Quality supplements will grow you a healthier goat.
RE: New to Pack Goats and Bottle Babies - jorgkris - 04-06-2017
Thanks! So, one of our babies had been disbudded before we got him. All looked well until just today. I'm going to try to attach a before and after picture(one is two days ago I believe and one is today). Does this look infected? Or is this normal?
How do I know if the disbudding worked properly or if it needs to be done again or what?
RE: New to Pack Goats and Bottle Babies - Nanno - 04-07-2017
I looks like the scab just fell off. Is it sore, swollen, or hot? Those would be signs of infection and you'd probably want to get the little guy on antibiotics right away since it's in the skull.
If it's not hot or swollen then it's just normal healing and it will be fine. If it's bleeding a little you can spray some BlueKote on it to help it dry up.
RE: New to Pack Goats and Bottle Babies - Dave-Trinity-Farms - 04-08-2017
Looks like they used a calf iron... Best way to know if a dis budding is infected is to smell it. If it smells bad, yep.