The Trouble with Two Year Olds - Printable Version +- Pack Goat Central (https://www.packgoatcentral.com/forums) +-- Forum: Goat Care, Health, and Training (https://www.packgoatcentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=15) +--- Forum: Training at Home and On the Trail (https://www.packgoatcentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=29) +--- Thread: The Trouble with Two Year Olds (/showthread.php?tid=3157)

The Trouble with Two Year Olds - saltphoenix - 01-22-2018 I think I saw Nanno mention something about the behavior of 2 year old wethers changes and challenges.  I'd love to hear more about that from any one who experienced it and tips & ideas on working with a newly difficult goat. Rocky just started up with some kind of crappy behavior I've never seen before. He turns 2 in April. Mostly picking fights with any and all the other goats, being more resistant to the halter & lead or pulling to go his way instead of mine. Almost as if he's learned he's not a kid anymore and is using his newer, larger size to challenge everyone, including me.  He's the only one I have to do this behavior change, so far.  RE: The Trouble with Two Year Olds - GoldenTreePackGoats - 01-22-2018 I can relate with one of my goats, his name is Huck. He was the most docile, passive, quiet and friendly goat, almost "slow" so to speak. His brother Yukon was top goat, and bashed any one who challenged Huck, so Huck never really had to assert himself for rank in the herd. When Yukon died in July, Huck got booted outside the barn, and picked on, he withdrew into himself even more from goats and people. Then one day about 2 months after Yukon died I saw him challenge our top goat Pluto, the were bashing each other for 4 hours non stop, panting, dropping to their knees when coming in contact from exhaustion. I broke them up at that point. But Huck continued until he was situated as the top goat. He even started hinting at challenging me which resulted in a squirt bottle to his face, but he did jump on Nick while we were walking the neighborhood. He really changed, almost like a rebellious teenager when he lost his brother. Now being 7 months after Yukon's passing, Huck is still more than assertive with the other goats but he has settled with us due to consistency in our expectations of his manners. (squirt bottle is our best tool) He was a year when he lost his brother, and he's now a year and a half. The other goats of his age thus far haven't changed much, nor developed bad behavior. We had a buckling we castrated at 9 months because he was becoming aggressive and rowdy in rut, and we didn't want that to develop into his character because he is so sweet at heart, castration changed him, he's a new goat sweet as ever. Maybe it's just some goats that go through this phase? I don't really know, but it has been very recognizable with Huck. Again, I don't know if/how goats grieve but with Huck's behavior it broke my heart. When we euthanized Yukon, we brought Huck to see the body before we took him away and Huck trotted up to him, sniffed, made a tiny little meh, and turned and ran away, from that moment he was never the same. RE: The Trouble with Two Year Olds - Nanno - 01-22-2018 Isn't it interesting how when the herd dynamics change, our goats' individual attitudes often change as well. My goat, Sputnik, was always shy, nervous, and hung at the back of everything--never really joining in the herd. He was the one goat that if he got separated from everybody, no one else noticed. But when we sold his twin brother he came out of his shell and started to really develop his own individual personality and take a place in the herd. He became more bold and adventuresome and started sparring with the other goats instead of just tagging along at the back. When Cuzco died, the whole herd was in a bit of turmoil for a while. Finn was the leader, but it took time for the other goats to recognize him as such and they would fight in front of him, ignoring his commands to settle down. And right there is the clue that your goat is not recognizing you as the undisputed leader. If he's picking fights with other goats right next to you, he doesn't respect your authority. I've noticed that goats rarely fight right next to the herd leader. If they do they get smacked. Make sure Rocky never starts fights when you're close by. It's dangerous, and if he gets away with it then it establishes Rocky as the leader instead of you. A spray bottle is a good fight breaker-upper as has been suggested. If I don't have a spray bottle handy I may pick up a stick and whack a naughty backside. Sometimes just yelling "Knock it off!" while stomping toward the goat and clapping your hands is enough to establish your authority. If Rocky turns toward you and gives you the hairy eyeball when you discipline him, go after him some more. He should turn his butt toward you and run the other way with his tail down. No horn cocking, no stinkeye, no hackles, and no sideways dancing. Those are all signs that he's still up for a challenge. Make sure when you walk him that Rocky never bumps into you or even brushes you with a shoulder, hip, or horn tip. These "accidentally on purpose" little body checks are his way of telling you he doesn't respect your space. A subordinate goat would never dream of bumping into his superior even by accident. When Rocky passes you, he should walk far enough away that he doesn't have to touch you. If he ever does bump you, bump him back with a knee to the ribcage or a boot to the backside to show him you noticed and weren't pleased. It would be just like an older goat butting a subordinate in the rear for cutting him off. He won't take it personally, but he'll eventually learn to stay out of your way and not cut you off. Make sure you never walk around him. If Rocky is in your way, bump him over instead of stepping around. Little things like this show him that you are in control. I believe the halter disobedience will likely clear itself up once Rocky learns he's not in charge. Good luck! RE: The Trouble with Two Year Olds - IdahoNancy - 01-22-2018 My 1st goat was almost 2 when I got him. I was his 3rd owner and a complete novice. He was a handful that 1st year when was 2 years old.  We went from squirt canons, to flipping him and occasional use of a fog horn. He turned out to a pushy bossy alpha with the other goats who out weighed him by 40 to 90 lbs.  He became a dependable loyal companion for me. Don't let the pressure off him, be consistent, firm, never loose your cool, and teach anyone who handles him the same techniques. Hobbs passed 2 years ago at age 10. RE: The Trouble with Two Year Olds - saltphoenix - 01-26-2018 I'm so glad to hear other's experiences. Rocky has always been a little more "assertive" than my other boys but I think the worst of it came with the 7 new kids that dropped a few weeks ago. He's always been one to "push the limits" with the "accidental" side brushings and I've questioned this behavior before. It's good for me to hear the best ways to deal with it. I've always said that Rocky is the goat I'd never give to a human kid to handle alone. Do you think it would be good to pull him out of the herd for some alone time for some walks and work? I've always got him with at least one other goat (his 1/2 brother) when we are training or out walking. I definitely need to put an end to this behavior because I see how he could be dangerous. He's really good with the command, "back up" because it is often accompanied with a squirt bottle. But the fly-by brushings and picking fights with other goats is often when the squirt bottle is (conveniently for him) out of reach. He's smart and now that I'm convinced he knows exactly what he's doing. I don't kick or smack them, being under the impression it would make them even more challenging towards me. I will keep the boot-to-ass method in mind though. THANKS!!! RE: The Trouble with Two Year Olds - Nanno - 01-26-2018 Yeah, be careful of the kicking or smacking as it can cause the goat to fight back if he doesn't respect you. The main thing is not to smack them head-on. That is a challenge. A boot to the butt is not a challenge--it's just an "I saw what you did and it's not ok!" gesture. Smacks should always be to the side or hindquarters and if the goat cocks his head at you, try clapping your hands and stomping toward him with your voice raised to startle him. He should quickly retreat. It's good you use a voice command before using the squirt bottle. That way he has a chance to retreat before being squirted, and he can learn to obey you even when you don't have a spray bottle to back up the command. I don't know if taking him out by himself will make any difference. Sometimes I find it's helpful to have more than one goat so that they can take their aggressions out on each other instead of focusing them on me. I make sure they don't clack horns next to me, but if they are feeling frisky I have no problem letting them go at each other while at a safe distance from people. We had an "only goat" that turned very aggressive when he grew up and I'm convinced that part of it was due to the fact that he didn't have another goat to spar with. He tried sparring with horses and people and none of us put up with it so he became frustrated. So having another goat or two on your walk might actually relieve some tension and give your guy an appropriate outlet for his exuberance.