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other animals - Duck-Slayer - 10-19-2014
I have a question for those who use there pack goats for hunting, do you ever have problems with bears, Mtn. Lions, wolves, etc... while you are out and about either hunting or hiking? how do you handle this type of problem? do you just stake the goats out when overnight camping in the mountains?
Matt
RE: other animals - michael - 10-19-2014
Hey duck slayer.
We took our two packing hopefuls on a three night backpack trip, there were reports of a griz in the very near vicinity. We were certainly concerned but had no encounters. So like all my trips I reflect back to consider what I would do differently as it was stressful.
For hiking I hope to have a 2nd livestock guardian dog to take with and leave one at home. We have one now and are waiting to see how she shapes up since she is still a pup.
For hunting, none of my goats are ready this year so I have some time to think about it and am thinking I would have to have a really well trained dog before I would take one. Still figuring that one out, hoping the situation will resolve itself before the time comes.
We did highline the goats on our last trip, they made way more noise than I wanted the first two nights but settled down by the third night. So I would highline them and camp close to home or on the property to get them used to the highline before taking them out again.
RE: other animals - Kentd71 - 10-19-2014
I always high line at night. Too much investment to loose. What the packgoat community doesn't need are lost goats. I like to keep them several feet from me when using a hammock so the don't keep bothering me at night. I have spent several nights with them under a 10 x 12 tarp.
I high line them to fed if I can not keep an eye on them.
RE: other animals - Nanno - 10-19-2014
Some people use a portable electric fence with a solar charger to pen their goats in camp at night. This not only contains the goats, but it can help ward off predators as well. This might be a good option if you can drive into your camp, but it would be pretty bulky to pack in and out if you were camping in the backcountry.
RE: other animals - Duck-Slayer - 10-20-2014
I was thinking the portable fence and just carry a small battery too charge the fence at night, either that or high line them and stay really close...
Matt
RE: other animals - TOU - 10-20-2014
(10-19-2014, 06:25 AM)Duck-Slayer Wrote: I have a question for those who use there pack goats for hunting, do you ever have problems with bears, Mtn. Lions, wolves, etc... while you are out and about either hunting or hiking? how do you handle this type of problem? do you just stake the goats out when overnight camping in the mountains?
Matt
I have not hunted with my goats but am planning to next year. Where I have been going there aren't much for wolves...yet...but there are LOTS of cougars and bears as well as coyotes and bobcats. If there were Northern wolves to the extent that they are in Alberta Canada where my family resides...my habits and responses would likely be quite different.
This past year I spent some time in the High Uinta's among other mountainous areas with 6 of my pack goats...moving camps every day. The first night I low-lined several of them but not all...what a pain in the neck, they hated it and so did I. The next night I was more careful and low lined only the two herd masters type goats...better, all stayed around no problem. By the 3rd & 4th nights they were more in the routine, tired, more relaxed, had shelter close by if it stormed...and so bonded to me...humans in general...that I can't imagine them going anywhere. (I couldn't even relieve myself without my peanut gallery of 7 looking on at all times...dog too.
) On the last two nights I didn't tie anyone. The last night there was a bit of a natural corral that they seemed to naturally stay in. There was lots of browse and they had learned to stay in "their camp"...not the "human camp". They wandered around the perimeter of our camp through the night a bit but basically stayed near my tent overall. All was perfect each morning. As noted above they are so bonded to me and seemed to be very concerned with going anywhere besides with me or one of my kids...human generally, that I can't imagine them going anywhere. As far as predators, I may be in error...but there is something in me that has concerns with tying my goats up with a sign that says "Dinner is served" with no ability to flee or defend themselves. That all said, if I was in Western Montana etc. where wolves were much more prevalent...AND...was in a long term encampment (base camp), I would likely strongly consider the portable electric fence scenario much more seriously. (Kinda tough if moving every day several miles and up and down at 11,000+ feet.) That said, with out the power of a true "BEAR" fence I'm not sure it would make much difference to a determined and hungry alpha predator.
Just a couple of thoughts...
TOU
RE: other animals - Duck-Slayer - 10-20-2014
there are a ton of black bears where I hunt, had one break into my cooler's on my trailer that was hooked up too my truck with me sleeping in the overhead camper woke up too banging, peaked outside and a bear had gotten into both my coolers, tore 1 top off and stole a gallon of milk, didn't have anything else except frozen ice jugs in them, so i'm kinda worried about bears, not too many wolves where I hunt but some, I may have too do some research on keeping out bears.... might have too go with the portable electric fence....
Matt
RE: other animals - Nanno - 10-20-2014
Electric fence (even a weak one) is excellent bear protection. Because they are incredibly well-grounded with their giant paws, even a small output electric fence packs a wallop on a bear. They're not very effective against mountain lions, but I don't know of anything that's foolproof against them (although livestock guardian dogs help). Luckily cougars aren't known to raid camps too often.
My biggest concern with leaving goats loose in camp is that if predators come through, your goats are not going to stay put no matter how well-bonded they are to you. A goat that bolts in panic is very likely to get lost--perhaps forever. It seems like a tied goat is a captive feast, but as long as your goats are tied nearby you should hear the ruckus if a predator comes after them. You're better able to defend them if they're not running all over the place. I know it's been popular to leave goats untied in camp for a long time (I've done it myself), and usually you can get away with it. But there are so many stories of goats getting lost this way that I've become quite leery of continuing this practice. All it takes is one curious bear or a bad lightning storm and you may find yourself waking up to an empty camp. Even human beings panic and do stupid things in extenuating circumstances, let alone prey animals with a hardwired instinct to flee danger. With the Forest Service breathing down our necks and listening for any sign of loose packgoats these days, I think it's in all our best interest to take every precaution to prevent escapees.
RE: other animals - TOU - 10-20-2014
Great points Nanno! I guess I'm not advocating not tieing them per se...just what I did this year AND we both hated LOW-lining. I will be trying HIGH-lining on my next outing. I will also have to look into a light weight electrical system as well.
Cheers,
TOU
RE: other animals - Duck-Slayer - 10-20-2014
Thanks for the input Nano.... I think I got it figured out, High lining them when not in bear country and electric fence when I am....
Matt