Panting, Huffing, Grunting

[WyomingPicker]

Hello Everyone,

I am a new goat packer from Wyoming.  I have recently purchased 2 great goats as my introduction into goat packing.  My whethers are both around 5 years of age and have had experience packing already.

My Question:

I recently took my goats out on a longer mountain hike without packs or saddles.  We left the truck and made our way about 2 miles into the country.  Everything was going fine, the goats following behind me snacking here and there, yet keeping up.

At about the 2 mile mark, my dominate whether began to pant / huff / grunt trying to get ahead of me.  If I let him in front of me he would stop making any noise and just stop.  If I even took one step he would begin the panting / grunting / moaning and again try to stay ahead of me.  It seemed that if we turned around to the truck he would stop the majority of this and let me lead.

Am I dealing with the same problem you have with horses that do not want to leave the trailer or pen?  Or was this a pecking order / dominance type of thing? 

I did not discipline during this as I did not want to do it incorrectly.


Any suggestions would be appreciated.

All the best from Wyoming.

[Sanhestar]

what body language did you observe? How would he hold his ears, head, tail? When in front, did he move straight ahead or put himself in front of you, blocking your way (partially)?

[Marc]

I think you are having a dominance and tired (or overheating) deal.  Number one, keep in mind, I run my goats in the mountains for 2.5 miles every week through the off season.  My goats only pant because they are hot, not cause they are out of shape (In the spring I train on cool days or eve or morning).  All my boys cannont make my whole loop right now because, as it warms up, they still have their winter coats, and they get over heated.  When my boys pant (as opposed to breath hard which the difference is a tongue out vs. just breathing hard) I stop and let them recover.  Keep in mind it takes a lot longer to recover from overheating than it does from being out of breath.  

So with that being said, I believe he is passing you cause he has heart and needs to stop and his only way of telling you is to get in front of you and stop you.  He also is likely getting in front of you and then saying to himself "where should I go now" but he doesn't know, and he's hot, so it make sense to him to stop.  Either way, you are doing two things in my opinion that will bring up issues for you in the future.  One, you need to let your goats recover if they are over heating or fatigued.  And two you should never let your goat assert himself as the trail leader over you.  I'd correct that with a squirt from a water bottle as he attempts to pass, or a thrown small stick or something else small (both should be accompanied with a strong "NO").  Keep in mind the stick or throwing object is intended to startle, not hurt.  Lastly, I have begun to use a dog training trick and it's working very well.  When my goats try to pass me I reverse directions on them and their whole plan gets foiled.  I run in the other direction, back down the trail and they learn that passing only results in an upsetting of the apple cart and more work.  They get that fast, and it's working really well.  

That is all I got...I'm saying all this with caution as not being there makes it hard to asses the situation and make a correction and many forms of training work....This is just my way and my humble suggestion.

[WyomingPicker]

what body language did you observe? How would he hold his ears, head, tail? When in front, did he move straight ahead or put himself in front of you, blocking your way (partially)?

Sorry Sanhestar my reply to you did not get posted.

He would hold his ears high and alert.  His hackles would be up the entire length of his body and his tail would be straight up in the air.  When he was in front he would cut me off and then stop.  He would not continue ahead, rather he would let me get equal with him and if I advanced any ahead of him he would groan and move ahead too.

[Nanno]

Hackles up is a dominance issue. It's quite possible he IS getting tired and rather than lagging behind or pausing in a shady spot to let you know, he's blocking your path and demanding that you "Turn around now or else!" This is naughty and needs to be dealt with right away. It doesn't sound like he's tired enough to need a break. In my experience, a truly exhausted goat does not have the energy to block you and play dominance games.

In the first place, make sure he stays behind you. A dominant goat does not let his subordinates pass close without getting hit. Carry a stick and when your goat tries to pass, block him with it. You'll probably need to whack the stick on the ground or bump him with it to convince him to stop encroaching on your space or going around you. If he does manage to pass, give him a verbal reprimand and move him back to his place in line. 

Look for signs of dominance at home. Something as subtle as "accidentally" brushing you with a horn or shoulder as he walks past you should be interpreted as a sign that he's testing your place in the pecking order. Do not let it pass unnoticed. A dominant goat never lets a subordinate get too close to him in passing without giving him a solid whack as he goes by. You should be the same way. A knee or boot in the ribs lets him know that he can't brush you with any part of his body as he goes past. He should respond by tucking his tail and scooting out of your way. If he responds by turning toward you, cocking his head, rearing, growling, etc. then it's time to lay down the law. I recommend carrying a squirt gun and giving him a faceful. Very few goats will tolerate a good wetting and most goats learn quickly that that cannot play dominance games with you. Sometimes a goat is so naughty that he needs to be taken to the ground and sat on for a while to let him know who's in charge. 

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