Invisible fence

[Whitehorsebob]

I tried a search here but nothing came up. What sort of luck have any of you had with a invisible fence ? We use a wireless one for our dogs and we have never really even had to break them in, they figure it out in under a minute or so. Any info is appreciated

[hihobaron]

Hello Whitehorsebob

I worked with NFS on under-story brush control in Los Angeles and San Berinadeno National Forest. Did that for 2 summers. The Brush Control "Crew" amounted to Me , 1 pack mule, My 2 personal horses (Arabians) and 25 goats.
We kept them "Contained" with a shock collar system like you mentioned. The practice was to lay out the transmitter wire on top of brush with a water source within the perimeter and they all stayed 4-5 feet away from the wire. Then just when a move was needed tie them up move the wire and show them their new graze area.
We were high enough up in the ranges to have nice summer weather rather than in the Metro areas with 105 degree heat. Nice country, no people except maybe a Backpacker or two.
My Base Camp was a 12 X 14 wall tent, wood stove and Dry Ice Coolers for fresh food.
Propane Stove for when we were under burn restriction. Small solar (portable) power system. To keep Communications running and laptop with a satellite data link.
Goat and horses/mule all ran together.
I also had a "Standard" Dog Shock Collar and hand control if one of the goat Decided to go closer to the transmitter wire.
The big trick was keeping fresh battery's in the collars, set to Audio Warning, then shock on high.
I also had a "Predator Control Permit" to protect the goats. Kept a hi-power rifle at camp, and carried a 357 mag pistol all the time.
A good hi-end Underground Dog fence system would work is my opinion.
How many goats are you thinking about.
Tell me more about your situation RE: Containment Needs.
Happy Trails
hihobaron

[Whitehorsebob]

Hello Whitehorsebob

I worked with NFS on under-story brush control in Los Angeles and San Berinadeno National Forest. Did that for 2 summers. The Brush Control "Crew" amounted to Me , 1 pack mule, My 2 personal horses (Arabians) and 25 goats.
We kept them "Contained" with a shock collar system like you mentioned. The practice was to lay out the transmitter wire on top of brush with a water source within the perimeter and they all stayed 4-5 feet away from the wire. Then just when a move was needed tie them up move the wire and show them their new graze area.
We were high enough up in the ranges to have nice summer weather rather than in the Metro areas with 105 degree heat. Nice country, no people except maybe a Backpacker or two.
My Base Camp was a 12 X 14 wall tent, wood stove and Dry Ice Coolers for fresh food.
Propane Stove for when we were under burn restriction. Small solar (portable) power system. To keep Communications running and laptop with a satellite data link.
Goat and horses/mule all ran together.
I also had a "Standard" Dog Shock Collar and hand control if one of the goat Decided to go closer to the transmitter wire.
The big trick was keeping fresh battery's in the collars, set to Audio Warning, then shock on high.
I also had a "Predator Control Permit" to protect the goats. Kept a hi-power rifle at camp, and carried a 357 mag pistol all the time.
A good hi-end Underground Dog fence system would work is my opinion.
How many goats are you thinking about.
Tell me more about your situation RE: Containment Needs.
Happy Trails
hihobaron

That's very good info, thanks. We have just been thinking a invisible fence would be very handy..we can switch the area they are browsing ect. This would be at home though I am thinking it could be handy at least in base camp hunting. The one we use now is wireless and u can adjust the area it covers. It has worked perfect for dogs. We got it originally just to keep them off the road thanks again

[Nanno]

Welcome to our forum! One thing you can't do is leave your goats unsupervised in an invisible fence because they will have no protection from predators. This is especially a concern if you're out hunting. A guard dog would help, but it might not be enough in bear country.

[Whitehorsebob]

Welcome to our forum! One thing you can't do is leave your goats unsupervised in an invisible fence because they will have no protection from predators. This is especially a concern if you're out hunting. A guard dog would help, but it might not be enough in bear country.

Roger, at home , mountains western Washington we do have Cougars , bears,bobcats and coyotes but we have never had a predation problem. Knock on wood. At base camp I would think if we did use one it would just be to keep them from wandering too far or onto the road during the day. Wouldn't be any different from a high line and there would always be someone there.planning. To keep them close. While hunting.

[Sanhestar]

the most danger goats are in in rural/city areas is from DOGS! And I agree that it would be irresponsible to keep them within an invisible fence only which won't protect them from any wandering/stray dog.

[Nanno]

Keep a livestock guardian dog in your invisible fence and it will greatly lessen the odds of any predator (especially canine) of attacking or harassing your goats (bears I'm not so sure--some are attracted to dogs as tasty morsels, and this is where having a secure electrified fence is better). The thing with predators is you never have a predation problem until you do. Predation may not be an issue in your area because people are using fence-out solutions, which an invisible fence absolutely is not.

For hunting, I think as long as you use it during the day and there is always someone in camp then you should not have any problem. It's a great way to let them browse a nice, big area and probably less impact on the environment than high/low lining. It's also much easier to set up than portable electric fence. I like it! However, I would strongly urge tying the goats at night because if a curious bear wanders through their "enclosure", no electric barrier is going to keep them contained and you'll have terrified goats running all over the countryside. Panicked goats don't realize this, but they're much safer if they can't run away--as long as they're forced to stay in camp, you can defend them.

[hihobaron]

the most danger goats are in in rural/city areas is from DOGS! And I agree that it would be irresponsible to keep them within an invisible fence only which won't protect them from any wandering/stray dog.

Hello All
I have comments/clarifications for all of you. 
The NFS system I used was a "Insulated wire" system that was in "Normal" usage for dogs the wire was to be in the ground about 2-3 inches so you do not hit it when you mow the grass. We just strung over the top of brush off the ground and marked it with "Orange" plastic construction ribbon flags 18 inches long and tied with a simple 1/2 hitch on the wire every 10-12 feet of run length.
2 advantages: 
#1 With what amounts to the transmitter antenna being actually held up above Ground Level by stringing over brush the "Trigger signal" goes further.
#2 The ribbon "Markers" give the animal a very constant "Visual" mark of were their boundary is even in the dark.
#3 All the collars were set to a BEEP warning if they got close to fence before they shocked the animal. It was a loud enough beep you could hear it in camp, plus they had bells on most of the goats collars. 
Night time there was a Electric Corral to herd them up into close to camp with 3 Strands Horse Guard Bi-Polar web tape fence around it. 4 KV  50 mile 12 volt battery powered fence charger on it. 
Once again marked with construction ribbon so they could see it even in the dark. 
BTY: I have for years marked both my Non-Electric and Electric Fences with ribbon as a "visual marker for horses" It works.
At times I have had to "Repair" fence under "emergency "  condition with just baler twin and hang ribbon on it till a good fix could be done. Marking everything with ribbon is something every fence should have.

Note: For any of you "Dry Land Goat People" that have problems with good electric fence performance.
It is Because "Normal" Electric Fence systems "Depend on Soil Conduction" If you are in Dry, Sandy Soils,Rocky, Drought Conditions.
The Horse Guard Bi-Polar I mentioned was designed for that because you have both the "HOT" side and the "Ground" side on the same Tape. Tape is about 1 1/2 inches wide and much heaver than Bayguard Ribbon fence tapes.


TO: Sanhester: Company that makes it is in France I believe. 
The Importer here in the USA is in the Chicago Illinois area. 
I have used the product and have it here right now.
It works very good because the animal get hit with a very hot shock because it gets both the hot and the ground side right off the fence charger. Works very good on sheep too. 

Horses and Mule were High lined as well as any "Problem Goats"

RE: the "Little" "Wireless" dog systems will not work for goats, not enough range or shock power. Goats have more hair and hide than a dog and are tougher critters.
====================
Moving On:
We all agree that in areas were there are large predators. Strong Containment when nobody is around in a good rule to follow.
That is why I was Issued a "Predator" Control Permit when working with the NFS to shoot anything attacking the goats.
BTY: My Rifle was 7.62 NATO Chambered Bolt Action Ruger 77 Mountain Rifle. Ghost ring sights, with a RTZ night vision scope for after dark work if needed.
My 357 Mag Ruger Revolve was at hand all the time.

Now for me here when I take a hike were "City Folk/Dogs" will be encountered on the trail I carry a Air Soft non-lethal pistol.
If a dog messes with the boys it will get stung very good and I have 20 shots to do it with. :


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Cattle Panel Shelter with a tarp to lock them up in at night.
See my Postings on the Red Neck Goat Shed Project in a different thread here on PGC.
(4)  cattle Panels in a square out side the goat hut for lock down and bad weather and you have it made.
Note; You do not need the tube gate panels I used them because I wanted more head room for horses IF I need to put one in.
It is 8 foot wide X 10 foot long. WITHOUT the Tube Gate Side walls the center inside height would be about 4-5 feet Just right for goats.
All up cost about $100 with all new materials. Probably not good for horned goats though. Tarp and wire trap points.

[Nanno]

Hihobaron said: RE: the "Little" "Wireless" dog systems will not work for goats, not enough range or shock power. Goats have more hair and hide than a dog and are tougher critters.

Ah, I wondered about that. I was confused about what type of invisible fence you were using with your goats. I always thought that the dog ones would be underpowered for goats, but since I've not used one myself I couldn't say.

As for that panel gate--Cuzco would be through that thing in a flash! He learned immediately after losing his horn that if he could get his head through, he could get his body through. We use gates with a mesh lower part, or we wire hog panel to it.

[hihobaron]

Hello Nanno and ALL
Yes, there are 2 types of "Invisible" fence.
Let me Define a bit more from my "Experience with both"
#1 "Little" Wireless system.
You plug a wall wart type unit into a outdoor AC outlet and it transmits a Radio Frequency (RF) signal in a 360 degree pattern.
The collar on the animal senses "Signal Strength" from the transmitter position. When the signal strength drops below a set point it beeps a warning to the animal, if the signal strength drops still lower it shocks the animal, to prove Don't go no more.
Problems with the above. Range and objects that obstruct the RF signal from the wall wart like the wall of the house or barn.
They may have 300 feet" Line of Sight" to the wall wart, but only 10 feet on the other side of the house or barn from were the wall wart is plugged in. Interference with the signal by the building.
Also IF you lose main power , to the wall wart , Collar goes right to "Shock Mode" Granted they only fire a shock for so long, but your animal gets a "undeserved" shock.

Many of the Little systems come with small wire flags "Like utility companies use to mark underground lines" to mark a visual boundary for training animals. That can work good, goats have a good memory for trails and place they can go.
Better memory for places they are NOT allowed to go. Just give them a chance and you will find out.

#2 Underground Fence systems.
They require you lay out a wire that is the antenna for the transmitter to "Surround the containment area"
Wire is in "City Dog applications" is intended for direct burial at the perimeter of your property.
The way they work is the collar when it "Senses" a RF signal "ABOVE" a set point, it Beeps as a warning. IF the Signal gets stronger it shocks the animal. You go no farther.
They too give you flags to mark the boundary for training.
The system I used was like the above. My other post told how I applied the system for portable grazing control.
String the wire above ground and mark with construction ribbon for a visual boundary.
The above use a wall wart for power supply at home, but can be "Adapted" to run off a car battery with no problems.
The "Biggest Trick" is using the construction ribbon to mark with.

The ONE bad thing about both systems is that when a critter gets out many time they can not get back in with out getting a shock. that is when you have to have the animals trust, you shut down the #2 type system go catch the critter, walk them back in.
Power the system back up. The "Flagged" boundary markers will keep them in for a while with the #2 described system
With the # 1 described system you take the collar off the animal ASAP, bring it in and put collar back on.

Moving On:
Gates and Cozco

I have "Good Goats with no horns" and they have yet to"Let themselves out" Both are smaller than Cozco.
More Later have go unload feed before Ice gets to bad.
Happy Trails
hihobaron and the Troops in SC.