Copper deficiency?

[michael]

We bought a 4 month old buckling in June of this year. When we got him he wasn't real perky but we figured some good feed and care would get him going before to long. He has been on a very slow decline ever since. We have given him treatment for parasites, minerals, extra feed, B shots, iron, selenium. We ordered in Copper bolus they are 4 gram caps copper oxide particles   
By this last week he was weak in the legs and poor appetite, his muscles had atrophied, but he was still eating though moving slow. Thursday we gave him his first bolus and Friday he was moving faster, though still slow, and eating a lot better Saturday he got some runs from eating better but still ate well today he is just laying around not eating. His eyelids look like they have more color 
Does anyone know how much copper we can give him? Any other ideas?

[Sanhestar]

did you have blood work and fecal exams done? Without a baseline you're groping in the dark.

[michael]

No I haven't had those done. He was doing okay but not great earlier so we hoped he would perk up then he went downhill this last week. He is peeing and his loose bowels cleared up. We don't have a good vet for goats here to work with.

[michael]

In the past we've had pretty good luck groping in the dark this time might be different.

[Dave-Trinity-Farms]

There are to many symptoms for it to be a simple fix and could be any number of things. Need more details on what you are feeding and how much, what wormer you used and how much, the minerals you are giving him and how much. At this point it would be good to follow Sans train of thought. Get him fecal tested for parasites and cocci. A blood mineral panel veries greatly from even one week to the next but if something is drastically low, it will show up regardless. That would give a little insight into if its a mineral or parasite based issue. But either are still just the basic problems. There are a whole host of things that it could be. But you start with the basics and work up.

[Sanhestar]

We don't have a good vet for goats here to work with.

can the vet draw blood and has a decent lab he works with and do fecal exams? Let him do that and post the results here.

Or let him only draw blood and send the blood and feces for analysis to Washington State University. I believe this is the one most knowledgeable for goats in the US. If I'm wrong, please correct me (I know which labs are good in Germany :-) )

[michael]

Will get those done thanks.

[Nanno]

I would think most any vet could do a fecal even if they don't normally work with goats. I also found a lab last year that will do them for something like $5, but I need to hunt around and see where I put that information.

Let us know if you get a blood panel done. When I've looked into those before I've had to decline because of costs. The only time I actually paid the $150 to get a complete blood panel done it told me nothing at all, so I'm pretty soured toward them now. I also called the lab here in Colorado last year about blood panels and they had about a dozen different kinds to test for different things. It was confusing because I wasn't sure what specific thing I was looking fore, and it really added up in cost if you wanted to test for more than one or two things. I'd love to know if you find something cheaper and easier to deal with.

[michael]

At every turn with this guy he rallied then went backward, that kept us thinking we got it that time. I'm not thinking he will survive till any test results come in. The copper bolus did a lot and we found little info on how much to give him. I might chalk this one up to experience.

[Nanno]

Poor little guy! I wonder if his mother was copper and/or selenium deficient when pregnant? If he was always a "poor doer" there may not be a whole lot you can do to make up for problems that may have started in utero. If he rallies when dewormed then goes back downhill soon afterwards it sounds like he's completely unable to ward off parasites on his own. I know copper deficiency can really open them up to parasite attacks. I'm not sure if it's safe to keep loading him up on it though. Have you treated for cocci? Has he gotten probiotics after deworming? It's possible that the treatments stripped too much of the good bacteria from his gut. A fecal exam for worms and cocci could really help you know what you're dealing with, and those usually come back within 2 - 24 hours of dropping them at a vet. It wouldn't hurt to call around and see if any of the vets in your area will do a fecal for a goat and how much they charge.