They're Here!

[deschutes dawn]

I haven't had any problems at all with horns on my guys or does. The younger ones catch collars on occasion but I remove collars when everyone is together so there's no problems. They are very respectful of my space and I'm constantly impressed with how they use their horns as tools. My two Alpine boys are w/o horns but the boys with horns don't use them excessively towards them or even towards the bottle babies when they get too curious or close when I have the little ones in with the gang. My does are also respectful of my space and the only time one of the girls connected with me was when she lost her balance getting on the milk stand and I was in the wrong spot when she threw her head to catch herself.
My very first pack boys would actually back their tails up to me when there was a threat-dogs usually-and lower their heads to protect me! Really miss those boys. All in all, I LOVE my horned crew!

[Jake Levi]

The horns stay on these two. I have had similar experience with my previous goats , they move their heads out of my way so I can get around the horns. I wouldnot have two horned bucks together, maybe not even penned close, but the rest for sure they'd be horned.

[TOU]

My apologies I didn't mean hijack or to start a horned versus hornless debate. That said, don't get me wrong, I LOVE the look of horns...I love the concept of potential defensive weapons. (I wish David Suisse was around to comment on this though.) Parts of me would love a horned herd...I think the concept of horns as coolers is great although I think hornless goats adapt to heat.

I have a hornless herd for my own reasons...many of the reasons brought up including that they tend to be a bit more aggressive and hard on stuff if they have them. I do know that I have never heard of any one injured by a head butt of a hornless goat or serious property damaged by one...even serious injuries to other goats by a hornless goat is much more rare. I have heard and witnessed the opposite on MANY occasions. They KNOW they have them, they know exactly where they are and how to use them including to get what they want. When they are bored they get used.

I don't personally own my corrals, fences or barns...they are borrowed & I am grateful to have the use. I also have visitors including many small children & I can't fully control access. I have small children & will have grandchildren in the near future. (Likely 2-3 yrs) I hike VERY narrow mountain trails with my kids & Boy-Scouts with as much as +1000' shear drops (although this much drop is obviously pretty rare..but even a 100 ft' can be deadly)...I cannot afford mistakes or accidents...period.

Horn use is a dominence or threat reaction, to see who will be the dominant breeder. I havent heard of any pack goats making threats on the trail. Has anyone else here? Size and growth are real with this breed, I am going to be very interested in watching them develop. The Ibex too although I wonder if I am ready for such a long term project as them. Right now their price is way out of my reach. But just on hetrosis I am sure some size could be gained. Again, I dont forsee a problem with the horns.

Time will tell.

Again, each of us have different situations & it is a personal judgment call...I still LOVE the look of the horned crews...majestic in the least!

That all said...what I was referring to, while not often, sometimes my goats go sweeping by me & even thump my elbows etc as they go by...especially at times coming off of hills. Kikos that I have seen are like the Texas long horns of goats & on a narrow mountain trail I could see this being a problem & it scares the heck out of me to think about it especially with kids/Boy-Scouts on the trail. Cr@p happens...I just want to minimize it around me and mine. YMMV...JMHO...everyone's needs & goals are different.

Again, I am SOOOO looking forward to hearing about yours in the coming months & years...I may even add some at some point. (sans horns)

Take care!

[Nanno]

My original plan was to have a horned crew because I love the look of them, no one likes disbudding, and they make it so much easier to halter and/or hang onto a stubborn goat. I love that I can slide my arm behind Cuzco's horn and hold his head up when I'm forcing medicine down his throat. But since I'm breeding and showing I can't do horns. The girls all have to be disbudded if I ever want to show or sell any of them as milkers, and I'm really not interested in a mixed herd--especially since I run boys and girls together. I don't want to take any chances with a horned wether injuring a mama or baby. I know hornless goats can cause injuries too, but having been butted by both, I'll take the hornless attack any day!

Like TOU, I'm curious how Jake plans to deal with that Kiko horn spread on narrow trails. I'd especially love to see how other hikers' dogs feel about passing such a beast! Jake might need to hang "WIDE LOAD" signs on his goats.

Teasing aside, they're going to look beautiful. I can't help but feel we're disfiguring our goats to some extent when we take away their horns. I can't wait to see pictures of them.

[Jake Levi]

Actually only the bucks have really big and spreading horns. Most does I have seen have what I would call relatively short horns, 12-16". Babe at 4 mos has about 5" ones, and Max has a couple inches more. I will get some pics up soon, I seem to have a lot of things going on now, but I wanted to get them home. I agree Nanno, to me dehorning, docking etc is disfiguring, I wont do it.