Weigh Day for the future Ben Lomond packers.

[TOU]

As many of you know I have five new packer kids...noted here in these original threads.


Link: My new soon to be packers...

Link: Two more new little Ben Lomond Packers...

"The Three Amigos": L --> R = DaKota, Kruze & Forest (All have same 100% Ober sire)



At Birth: :

• Forest = 11 lbs 3 oz (50% Oberhasli ---- 25% Alpine ------ 25% Boer...a triplet)
  
• Kruze = 8 lbs 13 oz (50% Oberhasli ---- 25% Saanen ---- 25% Boer...a triplet)
  
• DaKota = 9 lb 11 oz (100% Oberhasli)
  

At 47 days:

• Forest = 34lbs 10oz
  
• Kruze = 30 lbs 3 oz.
  
• DaKota = 25 lbs 10 oz.
  

At 73 days:

• Forest = 47 lbs 7 oz
  
• Kruze = 41 lbs
  
• DaKota = 38 lbs (*74 days)
  

My two 100% LaMancha kids:

Kody:



Bridger:



At Birth: : (Both have same sire...100% LaMancha)

• Kody= ? lbs ? oz (I can't seem to remember or find it right now but update this thread when I do)
  
• Bridger= 12 lbs ? oz (Single)
  

Today:

• Kody= 51 lbs 14 oz (*72 days)
  
• Bridger = 46 lbs 12 oz (*54 days)
  

I am hoping that they all will hit or nearly hit 50 lbs or greater by 90 days. Reason being, is I have read there is a general rule/trend that if a kid hits 50 lbs by 90 days that it is likely to be over 200 lbs when fully grown and mature. We shall see but it is looking likely for all of them...DaKota may be the only exception but I'm betting he will be really close to 50 as well.

Yep...pretty happy with their progress.

TOU

[Nanno]

Beautiful goats!

I'm kind of curious about the whole weight thing and how much all the early growth matters. Cuzco was not very big his first year but ended out at 38" tall and 200+ lbs. at four years. Pac-Man was nine months old when we got him and couldn't have weighed more than about 60-70 lbs. I could still lift him into my truck, while my doe kids from last summer had been too big/heavy to lift into my truck since they were four months. I could lift Cuzco until he was six months.

Fast-forward four months and I'm pretty sure Pac-Man is as big or bigger now than Cuzco was at his age. Pac-Man is just over a year old and he's far outgrown the girls who weighed half again what he did back in January. The most marked growth, I'm pleased to say, is in his legs. He's gotten very tall and leggy but has some decent muscling too. I'll never like Pac-Man's conformation the way I love Cuzco's, but I'm pleased (and a bit surprised) to say that I'm pretty sure he's going to end up every bit as big as Cuzco. I'm even more pleased to note that a lot of Pac-Man's height is in his legs, which have suddenly gotten very long. I really like long-legged goats.

Keep us posted on how your guys grow out! It's interesting to see how different goats age.

[Taffy]

You better keep Kody close to you at the Rendy or he may disappear!

Nice looking boys. It'll be interesting to see what they weigh on the bale scale I'm bringing to the Rendy.

[TOU]

Thx so much all it is really the first time I have raised kids since I was a kid.

Nanno, I really don't know how much stock to the 50lb/90 day/ 200lb trend there is but know it can't be a bad thing to be at that size by that time. I think there is obviously a wide variation & it is only a guide/trend. Besides I am going to measure them for heights from now on as well. Anyone have anything on heights on certain ages etc?

Besides good healthy, temperament, demeanor & conformation...my desired minimum criteria was to eventually be:

• Over 200 #
  
• 36" or taller
  
• hornless
  
• large boned
  
• be able to carry 40# or more on a daily basis
  

I think I have good stock now & will end up with great stock in these 5 little guys. I am still interested in hornless Kiko crosses down the road. I.E. Kiko-Saanen, Kiko-Alpine, Kiko-Ober or a variation of these on the second gen.

Taffy, thx...and good luck with that. On the scale...I just used our digital with me holding them.

On the Rendy, right now, with the new job & no PTO I am still just hoping to attend some of it. We'll see...its going to be tough.

Take care!

TOU

[Dave-Trinity-Farms]

Beautiful boys of course

As for size, there is no real way to judge when they are young how they will turn out. I have seen outstanding kids who turned out average and smaller kids grow huge as adults. Goats go through growth spurts and your opinion of them can change from month to month. But with the first year being the biggest in growth for any goat, by the time they are 1 year old you should have a good idea on how they will turn out. There is a standard breeding weight for yearling does. Thats 85 lbs minimum. About half of our does average this by a year old. So I think it would be safe to say if a prospect isnt at least 100 lbs by 1 year of age, then he may need a change of diet, a slow grower or may just not get as big as expected. Legion was 125 lbs by 10 months of age. Which was a bit ahead of the curve. His pen mates were between 90-115 lbs at the same age. The smallest was a month younger.

I really like TOUs expectations. 200/36 is a nearly perfect goat in my opinion as that is the norm and would be less likely to develop leg issues. Though I might push it to 220 for an ending weight. Unless a prospect is picked up from an unknown breeder/herd, there is no reason why just about any decent prospect couldnt achieve this goal. They would be 100% usable, easy to manage and no real custom sized stuff would be needed. Large goat blankets should still fit reasonable well, could be transported in the back of a truck with a high boy canopy (2 max in a standard bed).

[Huckleberry]

Great looking boys! As far as weight goes I have these two quotes on my weight chart;
“In general I like to see our goat hit 50 lbs at 3 months and 120 lbs at a year. That puts them on track to hit 220-240 lbs as an adult.” Rex Summerfield

“Around 100+ at a year is a good weight but not necessarily accurate as far as finished size. I do like to see them about 165 at a year and a half which seems to be a better predictor as least for my genetics.” Carolyn Eddy

My biggest boy is 4 yrs old and around 215, he only weighed 43lbs at 13wks old, but is also a Nubian/Boer. My other boys are all under 200 lbs, heck they're all under 150 lbs! They're great though and I'm very bonded with them so the amount they can carry doesn't really matter. I'll just get more goats if it becomes an issue

[TOU]

Beautiful boys of course

Thx!

As for size, there is no real way to judge when they are young how they will turn out. I have seen outstanding kids who turned out average and smaller kids grow huge as adults. Goats go through growth spurts and your opinion of them can change from month to month. But with the first year being the biggest in growth for any goat, by the time they are 1 year old you should have a good idea on how they will turn out.

This makes allot of sense. I was just trying to get a handle on where they are in comparison based on previous input & trends. I get that there definitely are no guarantees and its all just factors and indicators...that you hope are pointing to eventual outcomes. I do know that they are already taller & longer legged than my neighbors full grown pygmies. Of course the pygmies look like they still out weigh them; considering that they are less than 3 months old, I am cool with that.

There is a standard breeding weight for yearling does. Thats 85 lbs minimum. About half of our does average this by a year old. So I think it would be safe to say if a prospect isnt at least 100 lbs by 1 year of age, then he may need a change of diet, a slow grower or may just not get as big as expected.

Interesting, good information

I really like TOUs expectations. 200/36 is a nearly perfect goat in my opinion

That said, to be clear these are my minimums desired not my targets or maximums. I would be lying to you if I didn't say I would like to see 225-275 lbs & 42" tall.

as that is the norm and would be less likely to develop leg issues. Though I might push it to 220 for an ending weight.

This has more to do with overall bone structure & build, the rest will come. In orthopedics there is a Law called Wolf's Law that states "that bone in a healthy person or animal will adapt to the loads under which it is placed. If loading on a particular bone increases, the bone will remodel itself over time to become stronger to resist that sort of loading. The internal architecture of the trabeculae undergoes adaptive changes, followed by secondary changes to the external cortical portion of the bone, perhaps becoming thicker as a result. The inverse is true as well: if the loading on a bone decreases, the bone will become weaker due to turnover, it is less metabolically costly to maintain and there is no stimulus for continued remodeling that is required to maintain bone mass."

Basically the bigger & heavier the goat, given time, the bone should build for the load. This is a direct relationship & the trouble comes in when you load the bone with too much weight before the bone is finished or can remodel to adapt. I.E. Someone who is overweight may end up with CV issues but they are unlikely to be osteoporitic.

Unless a prospect is picked up from an unknown breeder/herd, there is no reason why just about any decent prospect couldnt achieve this goal.

I wish that were the case, I just sold two that were from lines that should have indicated they would hit these parameters but my analysis at three years old is that they never would. (As noted, there are never any guarantees.) At three years old, both were sweet in their own way & I hated to part with them but one was a PITA on the trail and caused problems with the group dynamic as well as very fine boned. The other was & always would be fine boned & tiny IMHO. I chose the guaranteed 6 others & am raising 6 more eventual replacements with the most positive indicators I could get.

They would be 100% usable, easy to manage and no real custom sized stuff would be needed. Large goat blankets should still fit reasonable well,

Finding larger kit is a problem I am happy to try to solve if it arises.

could be transported in the back of a truck with a high boy canopy (2 max in a standard bed).

Even more if hornless.

---

Great looking boys!

Thank you, I am pretty happy with them so far. I really like that they are not carbon copies of each other & that they all look so different even though all 5 come from only two different sires.

As far as weight goes I have these two quotes on my weight chart;
“In general I like to see our goat hit 50 lbs at 3 months and 120 lbs at a year. That puts them on track to hit 220-240 lbs as an adult.” Rex Summerfield

“Around 100+ at a year is a good weight but not necessarily accurate as far as finished size. I do like to see them about 165 at a year and a half which seems to be a better predictor as least for my genetics.” Carolyn Eddy

From what I can gather there are some breeds that just seem to fill out later than other, even as much as 5 years old. I.E. many LaManchas seem to follow this trend.

I really appreciate posting these quotes, thank you!

My biggest boy is 4 yrs old and around 215, he only weighed 43lbs at 13wks old, but is also a Nubian/Boer. My other boys are all under 200 lbs, heck they're all under 150 lbs! They're great though and I'm very bonded with them so the amount they can carry doesn't really matter. I'll just get more goats if it becomes an issue

Fair enough. For me, I have to fix the number of keeper & potential replacements (8+8 max) as I only have so much space, time & resources. Being as I need to be able to carry for several people, I also need to make sure ALL need to be the best I can find.

Great input folks, great discussion. In the end we all have different needs, desires & what compromises we are comfortable with.

Take care!

TOU

[TOU]

Here is the latest updates on my 5 new little Ben Lomond Packers:

"Forest" = 71 lbs. 3 oz. = 109 day old
"Kruze" = 65 lbs. 3 oz. = 109 days old
"DaKota" = 60 lbs. 10 oz. = 110 days old
"Kody" = 67 lbs 8 oz = 104 days old
"Bridger" = 70 lbs 4 oz = 83 days old


Yep...still happy with the outcomes so far with these five little guys. BTW, I pick the first three from Dwite on Wednesday morning...WAHOO!!! As noted the first three have quite amazing genetics and bloodlines...all five will create quite the diverse and well rounded backgrounds. That all said, it appears my two little LaManchas may be pretty amazing as well. I just found out that "Kody" & "Bridger's" dad = 195 lbs = 15 months old. Pretty good considering LaManchas are considered late bloomers, it will be interesting to see where they all end up.

As many of you know I have five new packer kids...noted here in these original threads.


Link: My new soon to be packers...

Link: Two more new little Ben Lomond Packers...

"The Three Amigos": L --> R = DaKota, Kruze & Forest (All have same 100% Ober sire)

At Birth: :

• Forest = 11 lbs 3 oz (50% Oberhasli ---- 25% Alpine ------ 25% Boer...a triplet)
  
• Kruze = 8 lbs 13 oz (50% Oberhasli ---- 25% Saanen ---- 25% Boer...a triplet)
  
• DaKota = 9 lb 11 oz (100% Oberhasli)
  

At 47 days:

• Forest = 34lbs 10oz
  
• Kruze = 30 lbs 3 oz.
  
• DaKota = 25 lbs 10 oz.
  

At 73 days:

• Forest = 47 lbs 7 oz
  
• Kruze = 41 lbs
  
• DaKota = 38 lbs (*74 days)
  

My two 100% LaMancha kids:

Kody:

Bridger:

At Birth: : (Both have same sire...100% LaMancha)

• Kody= ? lbs ? oz (I can't seem to remember or find it right now but update this thread when I do)
  
• Bridger= 12 lbs ? oz (Single)
  

Today:

• Kody= 51 lbs 14 oz (*72 days)
  
• Bridger = 46 lbs 12 oz (*54 days)
  

I am hoping that they all will hit or nearly hit 50 lbs or greater by 90 days. Reason being, is I have read there is a general rule/trend that if a kid hits 50 lbs by 90 days that it is likely to be over 200 lbs when fully grown and mature. We shall see but it is looking likely for all of them...DaKota may be the only exception but I'm betting he will be really close to 50 as well.

Yep...pretty happy with their progress.

TOU

[Nanno]

What do you weigh your goats with? Huck Finn is getting so big I thought I'd weigh him on our bathroom scale while I can still pick him up. The little stinker weighed 26 lbs. at four weeks! I'm not ready for him to be so big already.

[TOU]

What do you weigh your goats with? Huck Finn is getting so big I thought I'd weigh him on our bathroom scale while I can still pick him up. The little stinker weighed 26 lbs. at four weeks! I'm not ready for him to be so big already.

NICE NANNO!

Dwite has an awesome Vet scale that he weighs the first three.. The other two are via the same method as you...it's the best we have at the moment & seems pretty accurate so far. I believe that their father was via the tape method.