Day 3 with our new boy, Nick

[dutch007]

Day 3 went pretty well for Nick I put his pack saddle on him and we went for short hike around the property. When we walked past the young boys he didn't really pay them any mind, but they really wanted to meet him and were a little butt hurt they weren't involved in the usual morning hike. Spent a lot of time bonding, met the neighbor and recieved a copious amount of treats. He is acting a lot more comfortable, started eating more and other than being tired of being in a small quarantine area seems to be doing good to the best of my knowledge. Should have his blood work results today. What are my options if he is positive for either of the following:CAE, CL or Johnes?

[Nanno]

CAE is transmissible through blood and milk. Goats could possibly give it to each other when butting heads if both have a scur come loose, but the chance of wethers transmitting it is very low as far as I know. CAE+ goats nearly all got it as babies from drinking unpasteurized milk from CAE+ does. This is why it's important to have does tested for CAE before kidding and to remove the kids immediately at birth if the doe is positive. Many CAE+ goats never show physical signs of the disease and can live long, full lives. I believe stress can trigger CAE to go from latent to clinical. While the risk of transmission among wethers is low, most folks won't keep a CAE+ goat in their herd with clean animals because a low risk is still a risk and not everything is known about how this disease is transmitted.

CL is a nasty business but cannot be spread between goats unless there is an open abcess. Once a CL abscess bursts, the pus is very contagious and the bacteria can live in the soil for a very long time. I culled a doe whose blood tests showed she had a CL infection. If that had been the only strike against her I probably would not have culled her since she had no external abscesses. The CL blood test is not as reliable as the CAE blood test, and some CL+ goats live out their lives without ever getting an abscess. I did a lot of research into CL when our goat came up positive, and apparently some goats and some breeds are much more resistant than others. They may develop antibodies (which is what the blood test shows) without ever developing the disease. The blood test simply shows that your goat has antibodies to CL bacteria, which means they have been exposed to it. It doesn't necessarily mean they have an active infection. Goats that have been vaccinated against CL will have positive blood tests. A goat can live a long, productive life even if they have an active CL infection because unless it attacks some internal organ, the disease is not usually serious. The reason people take it seriously, though, is because of the extremely contagious nature of the bacteria. You have to quarantine the goat with the abcess and make sure ALL of the pus is extruded and that none of it gets into the soil or is carried on your clothes or shoes to other parts of the farm. The abscess wound must be dry, closed, and healing before you can safely let our goat back with the others, and this can take time. I personally did not want to deal with this risk since I have no good place to quarantine a goat.

Johnes disease is really quite rare among goats from small herds. It more often happens in goats that have been housed in crowded, unsanitary conditions, usually on the same ranch with cattle. Johnes is much more common among cows than among goats. A six-year-old goat in good health is very unlikely to have Johnes disease. Johnes is a wasting disease and most goats who have it will start showing clinical signs by age four or five.

[dutch007]

CAE is transmissible through blood and milk. Goats could possibly give it to each other when butting heads if both have a scur come loose, but the chance of wethers transmitting it is very low as far as I know. CAE+ goats nearly all got it as babies from drinking unpasteurized milk from CAE+ does. This is why it's important to have does tested for CAE before kidding and to remove the kids immediately at birth if the doe is positive. Many CAE+ goats never show physical signs of the disease and can live long, full lives. I believe stress can trigger CAE to go from latent to clinical. While the risk of transmission among wethers is low, most folks won't keep a CAE+ goat in their herd with clean animals because a low risk is still a risk and not everything is known about how this disease is transmitted.

CL is a nasty business but cannot be spread between goats unless there is an open abcess. Once a CL abscess bursts, the pus is very contagious and the bacteria can live in the soil for a very long time. I culled a doe whose blood tests showed she had a CL infection. If that had been the only strike against her I probably would not have culled her since she had no external abscesses. The CL blood test is not as reliable as the CAE blood test, and some CL+ goats live out their lives without ever getting an abscess. I did a lot of research into CL when our goat came up positive, and apparently some goats and some breeds are much more resistant than others. They may develop antibodies (which is what the blood test shows) without ever developing the disease. The blood test simply shows that your goat has antibodies to CL bacteria, which means they have been exposed to it. It doesn't necessarily mean they have an active infection. Goats that have been vaccinated against CL will have positive blood tests. A goat can live a long, productive life even if they have an active CL infection because unless it attacks some internal organ, the disease is not usually serious. The reason people take it seriously, though, is because of the extremely contagious nature of the bacteria. You have to quarantine the goat with the abcess and make sure ALL of the pus is extruded and that none of it gets into the soil or is carried on your clothes or shoes to other parts of the farm. The abscess wound must be dry, closed, and healing before you can safely let our goat back with the others, and this can take time. I personally did not want to deal with this risk since I have no good place to quarantine a goat.

Johnes disease is really quite rare among goats from small herds. It more often happens in goats that have been housed in crowded, unsanitary conditions, usually on the same ranch with cattle. Johnes is much more common among cows than among goats. A six-year-old goat in good health is very unlikely to have Johnes disease. Johnes is a wasting disease and most goats who have it will start showing clinical signs by age four or five.

Thanks for the info. I got lab results back from the CL test and he is negtive. Waiting for price

[Dave-Trinity-Farms]

Great info Nanno. I will add that CL can manifest internally as well in the lungs, liver and even the udder. In the lungs it causes coughing and snot to be highly infectious. In the liver, it causes the blood to be come highly infectious. And in the udder, of course, causes the milk to be come infectious.

[Nanno]

Thankfully it seems that internal CL is far less common among goats than among sheep. Goats usually get external abscesses if they are positive. Internal CL is still a scary possibility though. I've been told that the Swiss breeds, having been exposed to CL bacteria for many centuries, have more natural resistance than the African breeds such as Boer. There is no CL in South Africa, so Boers have extremely low resistance to the disease which is why so many Boers have it (and not only have it, but often have very bad cases of it).

Anyway, I'm really glad to hear that your new goat is CL negative. Yay!

[hihobaron]

Hello All
RE: CL infection in goats?
To Dave: If CL abscess can hit a goats lungs/organs, will it kill them or what are the symptomatic signs over a period of time?
My take would be that CL of the internal organ variety would kill a goat off fast.???
Comments Welcome.
Happy Trails
hihobaron and the Troops in South Carolina

[hihobaron]

Hello All
It sounds like CL is similar to Strangles in horses.
Once you have Strangles on a horse farm and they blow all the puss around you have it in the soil forever.
Is that about right for CL? too.
hihobaron

[hihobaron]

Nanno I you busy
I have the chat room open

[Nanno]

CL is actually the goat version of a horse's Pigeon Fever except that a horse with Pigeon Fever gets over it after a while. A CL+ goat can get abscesses all its life (it may not, but things like stress or other illness may bring them on at any time).

[Dave-Trinity-Farms]

CL in the organs doesnt kill em. Or at least I have never heard of a goat dying, someone doing a biopsy and discovering internal CL to be the cause. Although rare (or maybe with them being internal, there has always been a less likelihood of them being found) if a goat develops them internally, they have already manifested externally. There was a medical article I read years ago and it had to do with a fair in Europe where a sheep housed in the same barn as other sheep and goats. The sheep had CL in its lungs and was coughing a lot. Long story short, 90% of the animals in the barn ended up becoming CL positive. As mention, over in Europe, CL has been around quite some time. The country that this happened in had very strict CL prevention and testing programs in place. So they were able to track it back to that fair.