Dogs on the trail

[Nanno]

I'm planning to keep my goats on lead and attached to humans at all times on the trail. I'm in Canada, so carrying guns, especially in provincial parks and on public trails, is not allowed, I was thinking bear spray might be a good option, but I'm also wondering if leading with a guard animal like a llama or donkey might help? Has anyone tried this?

I think pepper spray might be a great idea. It works on bears and it works on dogs too. Some folks have also had good luck with a Dog Dazer ultrasonic deterrent. Other folks do fine carrying a stout stick. Your goats should be bonded to you well enough that if they are off-leash and get chased by a dog they should run straight to you as their protector. Good luck!

[TipsyToad]

I don't see any value in taking a guardian animal (except a livestock guarding or herding dog) with you. The guarding occurs when the lama or the donkey live with your goats permanently. So you have to care for yet another animal with it's own, special needs. Neither donkey nor lama should be kept solitary without members of their own species around. Donkeys are known to attack sheep/goats or play so rough that they injure them.

I already have donkeys and llamas who live with my goats and sheep as guard animals (we have a lot of coyotes where I live), but I get the point about having an extra animal on the trail. I am working on a business plan to take people on day hikes with pack goats, so each hiker would have their own goat to lead. That's one of the main reasons I'm planning to keep them on lead... it's part of the experience.

[hihobaron]

Hello All
Goat Defense:
Their are a lot of places here  that require you to have a permit to carry Mase/Pepper spray.
Especially in quantities over the size of a tube of lipstick a lady would carry in here purse.
You think 1-2 OZ is going to stop a bear and the range is short 6-8 feet maybe.
The only kind of chemical repellent I would feel safe with would be the big canisters of CS you see LEO's using in riot situations. Most places you can not get them without a permit.
Just Thoughts.
I'll go with a walking stick,Air Soft Pistol, and a good Magnum Revolver or rifle as back up.
Happy Trails
hihobaron

[Nanno]

I've never heard of needing a permit to carry pepper spray for bears/dogs. Bear spray comes in a minimum-sized can of around 8 oz. and have about a 30-foot range. It is highly recommended and widely available in bear territory because it is by far the most effective deterrent for a charging bear--more so than guns even. Bear spray works just as well on charging dogs. If bears aren't an issue in your area and dogs are the only worry, the smaller short-range sprays are a very effective deterrent without having to carry a special holster with a bottle the size of a can of spray paint.

[hihobaron]

Hello all.
I did look at Alaska Bear/Dog Repellent, has the highest Rating.
Also $35 a can.
From CS(Riot Control Products) products I have used, once you squirt a little of it the pressure in the can goes down over a short period of time. Basically a one shot deal. For $35 a pop.
You end up throwing a good 1/2 can away.
I'll take my walking stick, Air-Soft Pistol, and if needed a Mag Pistol or Rifle. They are all paid for and reusable.
Happy Trails
hihobaron, Blizzard,Fuzzy,Pete,Sam and the Troops in South Carolina.

[Sanhestar]

so each hiker would have their own goat to lead. That's one of the main reasons I'm planning to keep them on lead... it's part of the experience.

I have taken people out, as well, and for them the "thrill" was that the goats would follow freely.

[hihobaron]

Sanhestar
Hello
If you can ,I would like your input on my "Wild Idea" about  like you have posted.
"I have taken people out, as well, and for them the "thrill" was that the goats would follow freely."
I can do that here and even more so because of the urban environment. Lots of "City Folk"
Have had to always stop on the trails and talk with people about goats and had people especially families with children mix in with my me and the goat boys and take lots of pictures of them with the boys.
Just an Idea I am thinking about.
Thanks
hihobaron Blizzard,Fuzzy,Pete,Sam and the Troops in SC

[Sanhestar]

what do you want to know?

[hihobaron]

Sanhestar
Just your input because you mentioned YOU take people on trail walks with your goats that people enjoy.
I am NOT planing full pack trips(AT this point) Just short 2 hour or so trips to start with.
Not enough goats here to put a full pack string together anyway for another couple years.
Do have a couple nice places I can go hiking with the goats that are popular.
It would be a "Supervised " Short Hike" with goats ,a lunch mid-way, Pack Carried by Pete and then back to the Trail Head.
=================
Trail Site #2 Has Water Falls (Small) and nice Pools (Shallow) good for wading and the falls structure is such you can stand under them. Been their myself a few time but the goat boy's have not been there.
No water water crossings very short hike. But this would be more of be with goats and play in the water type hike.
Also there  is good history there that  dates back to the 1930's Depression era here in the USA. A Good Trail Story.
Just looking for your Opinion as to Marketability of the above ideas.
I know Laws are Different here then were you are, but I can cover that here.
Happy Trails
hihobaron Blizzard,Fuzzy,Pete,Sam and the Troops in SC

[Sanhestar]

ok,

well, I offered two to four/five hour walks through our area for - as you call them - townsie folks. Looked at the hikes I liked most, added a few geological and/or historical landmarks, a waypoint for a longer rest (goats carrying supplies and hubby driving in for the warm meal to save time).

But as we have a donkey and lama hiking business in our area as well, the clientel that wanted to walk with the goats remained very specialised.

A friend of mine specialised in shorter outings with her goats for children and has in the meantime a nice income that covers the goat's expenses. She started with contact to kindergarten groups, did several birthday hikes and last year participated in a sommerbreak educational program for children.