Chat
08-05-2021, 07:59 AM
I'm going to add a few things to what Nate said.
#2. "Wildlife friendly" fence means predator friendly. For your situation, and especially since you have mountain lions in the area I highly recommend getting a livestock guardian dog or two. In order to be baby goat friendly, the squares on your field fence need to be small enough to keep them from putting their heads through, especially if they have horns. Or you can string electric wire on the inside at about baby goat face height and this will keep them from getting too close. In fact, I recommend protecting your fence with electric wire both inside and out to keep all goats from climbing/leaning on it and to keep predators from climbing or digging under. Electric wire is very cheap, very effective, and much easier than constantly repairing the damage to your permanent fence that happens when goats have access to it. You can also use moveable electric net fences to subdivide your pasture for rotational grazing purposes. This is a much cheaper option than permanent cross fencing.
3. Definitely fence them away from any fruit trees. Even if it's not toxic, goats can gorge themselves when the fruit comes in and end up with bloat, polio, or other gut balance related problems. They are greedy critters and don't always have an "off" button when it comes to delicacies like fruit. And as Nate said, they'll kill the trees. I believe some fruit trees have toxins in the bark and leaves so do your research even if they're non-producing trees you don't care about.
4a. I am not an expert on toxic weeds, but many of the ones you listed are either not toxic to goats (at least not in small quantities) or they are avoided by goats anyway. However, if you know for sure that something is toxic, remove it. Youngsters are the most susceptible to toxic weed poisoning due to their curiosity.
4b. I personally am not a fan of alfalfa for wethers. If fed at all, it should be in limited amounts. My belief (not tested) is that the most common type of urinary tract stone in our packgoats is not the phosphorus-caused stones that are prevented by feeding ammonium chloride, but are the calcium oxalate stones that are caused by an excess of calcium in the diet and for which acidifying the urine does not work. I sold a baby three years ago that last year died of urinary calculi. They were calcium caused, and while the owner did not feed alfalfa hay, he had alfalfa growing wild in his pasture and that particular goat had a deep fondness for it. I believe some goats get addicted to alfalfa and if provided they will eat it to the exclusion of all else, so be very careful about wild alfalfa in your pasture, and about feeding too much in your hay ration. Another problem is joint development. I have seen several wethers on an alfalfa-rich diet develop bowed legs and too-straight joints in their adolescence. I own one and he is an "alfalfa addict". I grew up seeing joint problems develop in several alfalfa-fed colts when I was a teenager so when I saw the same legs develop on young alfalfa-fed goats it rang a bell. Finally, too much alfalfa can block copper and selenium absorption. I believe widespread feeding of alfalfa in this country is one reason goat producers have almost universal problems with copper and selenium deficiency. It's a phenomenon studied among cattle producers but goat producers don't seem to have gotten the memo yet. I'm not convinced that goats need as rich a diet as we tend to feed them. So much of our knowledge is based on dairy and meat production, which places huge and unnatural resource demands on the animals. When we feed packgoats like production animals I think we can really overdo it and screw them up. So while alfalfa can be great for a lot of things, be careful with it and do your research!
5. Join NAPgA and you'll find a map with other goat packers in your area. As a member you'll have access to their contact info and can join or form a local network. https://www.napga.org/membership/join-napga/
6. YES! YES!! YES!!! Pine and fir are very good for their guts and are even thought to be a type of natural dewormer.
7. A list of packgoat breeders can be found here: https://www.napga.org/resources/goats-n-...-breeders/. I disagree with Nate a little bit about adult packers. Keep your eye on the classifieds section here. Some folks just have more packers than they can feed, or they have a life change and have to move on from keeping goats altogether. I have heard far more success stories than failures from people buying adult packers so don't assume that because it's for sale, it's a dud. Do your research though.
8. I would disagree with Nate on this one. I think a properly conditioned packgoat could do 15 miles in a day as long as he's not fully packed to the 25% maximum. My lightly conditioned couch potato goats have done a few 15-mile days with half loads and have needed a day off to recover, but if they can do that will little or no conditioning I know they could do more if properly prepared. It's been a long time since I read about it, but I believe one of Rex (Northwest Pack Goats) Summerfield's goats hiked approximately 20 miles/day with a woman on the Continental Divide Trail. I think they hiked the whole thing in one shot. It was a slightly built but leggy goat and carried around 20#'s if I remember correctly. Don't underestimate the endurance of a properly built and well-conditioned goat!
Good luck and in addition to joining NAPgA, take some time to browse around this site. There are many great forum archives going back to 2013, plus some much older ones that I copy/pasted from the now-defunct packgoatforums.com that this site took over from.
#2. "Wildlife friendly" fence means predator friendly. For your situation, and especially since you have mountain lions in the area I highly recommend getting a livestock guardian dog or two. In order to be baby goat friendly, the squares on your field fence need to be small enough to keep them from putting their heads through, especially if they have horns. Or you can string electric wire on the inside at about baby goat face height and this will keep them from getting too close. In fact, I recommend protecting your fence with electric wire both inside and out to keep all goats from climbing/leaning on it and to keep predators from climbing or digging under. Electric wire is very cheap, very effective, and much easier than constantly repairing the damage to your permanent fence that happens when goats have access to it. You can also use moveable electric net fences to subdivide your pasture for rotational grazing purposes. This is a much cheaper option than permanent cross fencing.
3. Definitely fence them away from any fruit trees. Even if it's not toxic, goats can gorge themselves when the fruit comes in and end up with bloat, polio, or other gut balance related problems. They are greedy critters and don't always have an "off" button when it comes to delicacies like fruit. And as Nate said, they'll kill the trees. I believe some fruit trees have toxins in the bark and leaves so do your research even if they're non-producing trees you don't care about.
4a. I am not an expert on toxic weeds, but many of the ones you listed are either not toxic to goats (at least not in small quantities) or they are avoided by goats anyway. However, if you know for sure that something is toxic, remove it. Youngsters are the most susceptible to toxic weed poisoning due to their curiosity.
4b. I personally am not a fan of alfalfa for wethers. If fed at all, it should be in limited amounts. My belief (not tested) is that the most common type of urinary tract stone in our packgoats is not the phosphorus-caused stones that are prevented by feeding ammonium chloride, but are the calcium oxalate stones that are caused by an excess of calcium in the diet and for which acidifying the urine does not work. I sold a baby three years ago that last year died of urinary calculi. They were calcium caused, and while the owner did not feed alfalfa hay, he had alfalfa growing wild in his pasture and that particular goat had a deep fondness for it. I believe some goats get addicted to alfalfa and if provided they will eat it to the exclusion of all else, so be very careful about wild alfalfa in your pasture, and about feeding too much in your hay ration. Another problem is joint development. I have seen several wethers on an alfalfa-rich diet develop bowed legs and too-straight joints in their adolescence. I own one and he is an "alfalfa addict". I grew up seeing joint problems develop in several alfalfa-fed colts when I was a teenager so when I saw the same legs develop on young alfalfa-fed goats it rang a bell. Finally, too much alfalfa can block copper and selenium absorption. I believe widespread feeding of alfalfa in this country is one reason goat producers have almost universal problems with copper and selenium deficiency. It's a phenomenon studied among cattle producers but goat producers don't seem to have gotten the memo yet. I'm not convinced that goats need as rich a diet as we tend to feed them. So much of our knowledge is based on dairy and meat production, which places huge and unnatural resource demands on the animals. When we feed packgoats like production animals I think we can really overdo it and screw them up. So while alfalfa can be great for a lot of things, be careful with it and do your research!
5. Join NAPgA and you'll find a map with other goat packers in your area. As a member you'll have access to their contact info and can join or form a local network. https://www.napga.org/membership/join-napga/
6. YES! YES!! YES!!! Pine and fir are very good for their guts and are even thought to be a type of natural dewormer.
7. A list of packgoat breeders can be found here: https://www.napga.org/resources/goats-n-...-breeders/. I disagree with Nate a little bit about adult packers. Keep your eye on the classifieds section here. Some folks just have more packers than they can feed, or they have a life change and have to move on from keeping goats altogether. I have heard far more success stories than failures from people buying adult packers so don't assume that because it's for sale, it's a dud. Do your research though.
8. I would disagree with Nate on this one. I think a properly conditioned packgoat could do 15 miles in a day as long as he's not fully packed to the 25% maximum. My lightly conditioned couch potato goats have done a few 15-mile days with half loads and have needed a day off to recover, but if they can do that will little or no conditioning I know they could do more if properly prepared. It's been a long time since I read about it, but I believe one of Rex (Northwest Pack Goats) Summerfield's goats hiked approximately 20 miles/day with a woman on the Continental Divide Trail. I think they hiked the whole thing in one shot. It was a slightly built but leggy goat and carried around 20#'s if I remember correctly. Don't underestimate the endurance of a properly built and well-conditioned goat!
Good luck and in addition to joining NAPgA, take some time to browse around this site. There are many great forum archives going back to 2013, plus some much older ones that I copy/pasted from the now-defunct packgoatforums.com that this site took over from.