Chat
I hear you Taffy & it makes allot of sense...it is a limited market currently, but it will continue to grow if we maintain our access abilities.
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To All,
One point I think to be true though no matter how limited our numbers, in regards to us Packers,...is that we probably tend to be willing to spend more money in regards to Vet care etc. on our wethered male goats than the average Goat owners, be they brushers, meat or dairy. THAT is valuable. Now if a Vet already has more clients than they want, than it may not be a valuable advertisement for them. Maybe though...it is just about supporting their clients in a very worthy cause...to be able to help them be able to access the NF & do what we do. Heck...maybe its reason to pick one Vet over another, I don't know. I do know this, if everything else is equal between two given Vets...if I know a Vet has supported NAPgA over one who hasn't, I will probably pick the former even if further away. That goes for anything...Pack Goat Breeders, equipment sellers, livestock supply...anything.
I will also tell you this, if we aren't able to pack there will be lost business in general...how significant? Who knows, I realize we are currently a smaller group...but it is growing in serious interest. (I rarely go on a trail and not talk to at least a dozen or two people that didn't know much about it before.) I personally have spent several $1000's on goats, goat packing equipment, food & supplies in the past year with no monetary returns.
At the risk of being a bit outspoken and harsh on this last point...not directed at any company or person...but to be very frank, if there are PackGoat suppliers of Pack Goat equipment, PackGoat livestock or supplies etc...and they are not a supporters of this cause with a NAPgA membership in the least, I am not so sure I will personally be wanting to support them in the future. I will definitely support those who I know are...I "votes with my monies". On that note, I have approached a certain livestock equipment supplier who has agreed to donate $1000 to NAPgA later this week. I will also be approaching three of my local farm supply stores for financial support...in addition to my goats personal Vet. What does it hurt? Are they going to stop letting me buy from them? I don't think so...All they can say is no.
On this line of thinking...again I mean no offense to any...but I feel that if folks are involved in Goat Packing in the slightest or think that they might want to be...there is also absolutely ZERO acceptable EXCUSES for them to not joining NAPgA right now for the whopping $20 a year it cost. I blow $20 a week on all sorts of garbage. Join & pay for 2 or three years in advance. If we have petty grievances or differences of opinion, politics or otherwise with a given person in Packing or even at NAPgA, its time to put that kind of thing away for now and support this cause. On the topic of membership, I think we need booths at County Fairs as well as 4H involvement to increase membership & interest. Yes it means more people on the trails but...IT MEANS MORE GOAT PACKERS on the trails.
Folks, talk to your friends & family that want to or have gone on trips with you. Get them to join as honorary members this year. Heck, if I can think of how & where to do it, I'm personally thinking about offering a onetime camping or hunting trip using my goats & gear for an auction item & donating 100% of the proceeds. Just need to figure out some logistics of how to go about it & figure the time. Hmmm...EBAY? GunBroker? Still thinking this one through...ideas are welcome.
Here is the deal, if we were to lose this specific Precedence setting case, it will domino from there one way or the other...including current National Forest areas that are NOT known for BHS. Think about it...if we were to lose and precedence is set, what is to stop them from saying "we are thinking about introducing/re-introducing" BHS to an area from a 1000 years ago? I know for a fact that in the last year two PackGoat outfitters in my general vicinity that are no longer using pack goats to outfit & have sold all PG's & equipment because of the hassle they were receiving about their permits from the FS. Guess what? Neither forest areas are currently listed but the FS is preemptively restricted access. The outfitters can't afford to fight it as they still need to outfit & guide.
On this last note, if we were to completely loose the NF access permanently I can't say that I too won't be selling my thousands of dollars worth of goats & equipment...likely at a serious & steep loss. If I can't access NF with them, where am I supposed to go where I live? It's not like they are a business for me that I still make money off of...I don't milk or breed them, I have no desire to. I feed & spend money on equipment & Vet care for a reason...it's worth it to me & my family...if I can access the National Forest with them. However I would instantly stop spending money in these related industries if I didn't have access. It's ALL about the goats and packing with them with my family & friends...but there is no way I could justify a herd of 12 otherwise.
Anyway, I know I am rambling & the words maybe a bit strong but this is serious & so am I...hopefully I make some sense.
Warmest Regards,
Ken
----------------------
To All,
One point I think to be true though no matter how limited our numbers, in regards to us Packers,...is that we probably tend to be willing to spend more money in regards to Vet care etc. on our wethered male goats than the average Goat owners, be they brushers, meat or dairy. THAT is valuable. Now if a Vet already has more clients than they want, than it may not be a valuable advertisement for them. Maybe though...it is just about supporting their clients in a very worthy cause...to be able to help them be able to access the NF & do what we do. Heck...maybe its reason to pick one Vet over another, I don't know. I do know this, if everything else is equal between two given Vets...if I know a Vet has supported NAPgA over one who hasn't, I will probably pick the former even if further away. That goes for anything...Pack Goat Breeders, equipment sellers, livestock supply...anything.
I will also tell you this, if we aren't able to pack there will be lost business in general...how significant? Who knows, I realize we are currently a smaller group...but it is growing in serious interest. (I rarely go on a trail and not talk to at least a dozen or two people that didn't know much about it before.) I personally have spent several $1000's on goats, goat packing equipment, food & supplies in the past year with no monetary returns.
At the risk of being a bit outspoken and harsh on this last point...not directed at any company or person...but to be very frank, if there are PackGoat suppliers of Pack Goat equipment, PackGoat livestock or supplies etc...and they are not a supporters of this cause with a NAPgA membership in the least, I am not so sure I will personally be wanting to support them in the future. I will definitely support those who I know are...I "votes with my monies". On that note, I have approached a certain livestock equipment supplier who has agreed to donate $1000 to NAPgA later this week. I will also be approaching three of my local farm supply stores for financial support...in addition to my goats personal Vet. What does it hurt? Are they going to stop letting me buy from them? I don't think so...All they can say is no.
On this line of thinking...again I mean no offense to any...but I feel that if folks are involved in Goat Packing in the slightest or think that they might want to be...there is also absolutely ZERO acceptable EXCUSES for them to not joining NAPgA right now for the whopping $20 a year it cost. I blow $20 a week on all sorts of garbage. Join & pay for 2 or three years in advance. If we have petty grievances or differences of opinion, politics or otherwise with a given person in Packing or even at NAPgA, its time to put that kind of thing away for now and support this cause. On the topic of membership, I think we need booths at County Fairs as well as 4H involvement to increase membership & interest. Yes it means more people on the trails but...IT MEANS MORE GOAT PACKERS on the trails.
Folks, talk to your friends & family that want to or have gone on trips with you. Get them to join as honorary members this year. Heck, if I can think of how & where to do it, I'm personally thinking about offering a onetime camping or hunting trip using my goats & gear for an auction item & donating 100% of the proceeds. Just need to figure out some logistics of how to go about it & figure the time. Hmmm...EBAY? GunBroker? Still thinking this one through...ideas are welcome.
Here is the deal, if we were to lose this specific Precedence setting case, it will domino from there one way or the other...including current National Forest areas that are NOT known for BHS. Think about it...if we were to lose and precedence is set, what is to stop them from saying "we are thinking about introducing/re-introducing" BHS to an area from a 1000 years ago? I know for a fact that in the last year two PackGoat outfitters in my general vicinity that are no longer using pack goats to outfit & have sold all PG's & equipment because of the hassle they were receiving about their permits from the FS. Guess what? Neither forest areas are currently listed but the FS is preemptively restricted access. The outfitters can't afford to fight it as they still need to outfit & guide.
On this last note, if we were to completely loose the NF access permanently I can't say that I too won't be selling my thousands of dollars worth of goats & equipment...likely at a serious & steep loss. If I can't access NF with them, where am I supposed to go where I live? It's not like they are a business for me that I still make money off of...I don't milk or breed them, I have no desire to. I feed & spend money on equipment & Vet care for a reason...it's worth it to me & my family...if I can access the National Forest with them. However I would instantly stop spending money in these related industries if I didn't have access. It's ALL about the goats and packing with them with my family & friends...but there is no way I could justify a herd of 12 otherwise.
Anyway, I know I am rambling & the words maybe a bit strong but this is serious & so am I...hopefully I make some sense.
Warmest Regards,
Ken
LOCATION: Top-of-Utah at the South base of Ben Lomond