Pack Goat Closure extending to Oregon

[vigilguy]

Just an FYI, on the Wallowa-Whitman Forest website it was just announced that the comment period for the Blue Mountain National Forest Draft LMP has been extended to August 15. That should give everyone a chance to write up some substantive comments. I would also encourage everyone planning to comment, to read the comment requirements on their FAQ page, as there are some specific criteria that need to be met before the Forest Service would be required to consider your comments.

---

Im not sure if this particular editorial on the subject of Packgoat disease carrying capacity has been shared on this site, but I figured I would provide the link anyways.

http://avmajournals.avma.org/doi/pdf/10....002.63.119

The summary of the article was “Pasteurella spp may be transmitted when animals are in close proximity, particularly by nose-to-nose contact. Therefore, when domestic pack goats are in wildlife habitats, they should be managed to prevent contact with wild ruminants.”

I only bring this up because I worry that we in the packgoat community might be fighting the wrong fight. We keep suggesting in these forums that there is no conclusive evidence to connect the possibility of disease transfer between packgoats and BHS. Unfortunately, I believe that eventually there will be such evidence, and all the more so if we keep pushing for it. The biological similarities between all ruminants suggests that there will always be some level of risk of disease transfer between them. Therefore, we should stop trying to convince people that a goat cannot transfer a disease to a BHS, but rather focus on convincing them that the level of risk of such an event happening is SO LOW that it is not worth mitigating. And even if the risk were deemed too high to leave unmanaged, there are mitigation options available to a packgoat problem that would not be available to other grazing domestic herds. Namely, we would be willing as a community to adhere to rules or regulations requiring us to high-line, to keep our goats on leads all the time, to use GPS collars, etc. Objectively, if the ultimate goal is to ensure that no BHS ever comes within 60 feet of one of our goats, that is a manageable goal without banning our goats from the forests completely. I have even toyed around with the idea of using backpacking electric bear fences to create a perimeter around my camp. Not that it would be meant to keep my goats in, but rather in the (albeit highly unlikely) circumstance if a BHS came sniffing around, he would get a jolt from the fence long before he came in range of my goats.

So, lets make sure we pick the right arguments, the winning arguments that put us on the side of the BHS rather than make us appear ignorant and anti-wildlife.

Here's my personal response on your comments---- After talking to Curtis King and Larry Robinson about the attendance to the public meetings concerning the Forest in Washington and Oregon, it seems like they were talking with a much more rational USFS audience than what we are dealing with in the Shoshone National Forest. Larry told me that he came away quite encouraged after talking with the USFS biologist. The biologist made comments like,"sounds like 'they' have lumped domestic goats in with the domestic sheep and brush goats." Comments like that from USFS personnel are heartwarming! Why? Because being used to dealing with the Shoshone personnel, I am not used to it. Up here in Wyoming, we hear things like,"If there is a one-in-a-million chance...it's too great." "Or...there is a chance that domestic goats cause catastrophic die-offs". Comments like this, (which we actually heard), made us feel like we were dealing with an irrational, paranoid audience that refused to listen to any logic or sound reason.

Is there a possibility that goats can transfer MH bacteria to the BHS. I am not so naive to think that there isn't. The scientists that have served on the various Boards have suggested proper management techniques in order to ensure separation between the two species, and I am in complete agreement with that. That is why we (NAPgA) proposed the 13 Best Management Practices in order to accommodate those requests. I am personally all in favor of holding clinics or classes by"Master Trainers" in each state, require that those who want to obtain a stock permit for their packgoats be required to take these clinics, pass an exam, and become "certified" before applying for a stock permit.

But what we are hearing up here in Wyoming is...TOTAL BAN. In fact, the Forest Service issued a "temporary" ban for 4 out of the 5 ranger districts in the Shoshone National Forest over the last 18 or so months. The Wyoming Game & Fish and the Wyoming Sheep Foundation have not been as willing to listen to logic as the Forest Service has. In public meetings up here, they have been rude, nasty, immature and downright paranoid. I only mention this because I want all of you to understand the caliber of people that we have to deal with up here.

I won't go into great depth about the scientific studies in this post, but I will state that when I have read studies with penned up the BHS and domestic sheep, the results have been catastophic. BUT, in the only two studies that involved domestic goats and BHS (1994) and (2010), NO die-offs occurred in the first one, and two out of seven BHS died (in a lung-worm study) AFTER 11 MONTHS IN CAPTIVITY. Only two studies in 20 years. I have even read a study where two BHS died while penned up with horses. Then why don't we ban horses? (Using the same logic). Of course not! Then don't make laws based on inadequate science, and don't write papers (Schommer) that distort the facts.

My point is this--- Let us implement our Best Management Practices. We will educate and certify the goatpacking community. WE will teach our community LNT ethics and proper goat management. Those that apply for a stock permit will have to be certified in one of our clinics.

---

The article concludes that the vaccine does not work on goats. We do not object to the fact that our goats carry this type of bacteria. We object to the conclusion they came to in the bottom which was not even relevant to the objective of study. Pack goats do carry this bacterium but there is no evidence that they can transmit this to bighorn sheep. Dr. Foreyt and his studies have proven the opposite. Hypothesis and opinions are not evidence-based science and should not be included in the management practices of our national Forest in an effort to exclude one group of users. Despite this we are willing to use management practices for our packgoats to minimize potential contact with bighorn sheep.

Well said, Nancy!. I agree 100%. I even called Dr. Foreyt personally about a year ago and he told me that, at present, there is not nearly enough science to make a determination (such as banning) on domestic goats.

These scientists all suggest proper managment practices to minimize contact. WORKS FOR ME!

---

I am more concerned about the health of Bighorn Sheep when I see photos like THIS...think of the STRESS that they are being subjected to!