Copper deficiency?

[Dave-Trinity-Farms]

WSU (WADDL) will do fecals and blood mineral panels. If you cant draw the blood yourself, then getting your vet to do it. That is if you think you its worth the risk of spending the money only to have him Die. It takes a long time to pull a goat out of a deficient state. Months and months. You can by pass the testing and just treat. My vet calls that cure or kill em. You just throw everything at em and hope. If it were me I would give him 1cc of multimin 90 (Can only get it from a vet). Id worm with Cydectin Oral sheep drench at 1cc per 6 lbs. I also do a dose of safeguard oral paste to cover the worms (pin, lung) that are not covered by the other wormers. Id treat for cocci with Baycox. Again, I think thats a vet only drug. But I also think its a one time only treatment... This would cover the basics. It will be a little spendy but its a solid base treatment to start with.

[michael]

We took a fecal sample in today should have results tomorrow. The dewormers we use are a herbal mix made by fir meadow, we had phenomenal luck with it last year they make a herbal combination for cocci as well.
What we now think happened is that the dam was copper deficient, she died close to the birth, the farm we got him from has problems with UC as they feed their bucks and wethers grain. We wouldn't get an older buck or wether from them but figured this little guy would be fine. He was poking along till about two weeks ago which is when we went to fair, the whole family camps at the fair and the animals who stay behind just have to fend for themselves, they don't really need much. This little guy really went downhill. I found another goat all but killing him and realized he was weak and couldn't defend himself. I thought the others had chased him off the food and he got weak, so I separated him but he kept going downhill. We didn't know about copper deficiciancy in does causing problems in kids we also didn't know about it causing parasite problems. By the time we got the copper and found all this info he was pretty weak. After a copper treatment he really rallied but it didn't last. I don't have a lot of hope at the moment we are giving him milk with a drench syringe, that's all that's keeping him alive.
To many things learned to late I think.
I should have been way more proactive from day one.

[michael]

Just saw your post Dave, I will try to do those. Do you think there is any value in another copper bolus? I can do my own blood draws but I don't think I have that much time. I've never had anything like this before.

[Nanno]

I think herbal dewormers can be great for warding off parasites in a normal, healthy herd, but they're usually not sufficient for a goat that is already carrying a heavy worm load. Having the fecal results will tell you if he has worms, what kind, and how many. As weak as he is, he will need probiotics to go with any chemical worm treatment you give him because they can kill the good bacteria in his gut. Probios is a brand you can usually find in a feed store. I don't think another copper bolus is going help. Copper boluses are slow release so the Multimin 90 shot that Dave recommends would do a lot more for him right now. It puts the minerals right into the bloodstream. It doesn't sound like you have much hope he'll survive, but sometimes they can surprise us. Good luck!

[Dave-Trinity-Farms]

Nanno is 100% correct. Herbal dewormers only really work on health animals. And even then it doesnt kill off parasites. It only makes a hostile environment for them to try and live in. In this boys case I would do the following: Because he is so weak, a full does of any wormer will probably kill him if he is loaded with parasites. The die off of them can cause a toxicity in their gut. I would do a half does of Ivermecin. Then in 3-5 days do a normal dose of the cydectin. 7 days later give the baycox. 3 days later give the second dose of cydectin. Then a final dose of cydectin 10 days later. Then if you want you can start your herbal again.

Here is something to note. A goat that is severely deficient in one mineral will become so in most others (cept selenium which uses vit E only) as the body tries to right / balance itself.

[michael]

We lost him last night. Thank you for all the info I will save it and hope I don't ever need it.

[Nanno]

I'm so sorry he didn't make it. Sounds like you did all you could in the little time you had. You may still learn a lot from the fecal exam even though he is passed. Sometimes bad experiences can be the best teachers.

[Taffy]

I'm sorry to hear you lost him. Hugs.

[michael]

I always learn just prefer to learn from triumphs rather than defeats. This is one time my laid back attitude was not in my best interest. I completely agree that a chemical dewormers has its place and we should have been looking in that direction. Minerals play such a huge role in caprine health, I'm just amazed at how well goats survive in such a precarious balance.

[Nanno]

Yeah, it's definitely a lot nicer to learn from the triumphs. But unfortunately there are always defeats and the best we can do is to learn from them. I love the old adage, "Where there's stock there's trouble." I say it to myself fairly often.

I too am amazed at how important minerals are for overall health. When they are mineral deficient it sure opens them up to all kinds of other problems from parasites, to poor coats, to weight loss, to bitter milk. It's amazing to me the difference in their coats when they are getting a quality mineral compared to a so-so one. Nubbin's milk got a bitter edge to it this summer, so on a hunch I put out a cobalt block and now it's sweet again. If it's not one thing it's another. Goats can be tricky for sure. I have to remind myself about this pretty often so I don't beat myself up when something goes wrong.