Feeding Pellets

[dutch007]

     My boys seem to waste quite a bit of feed regardless of the style of feeder I use resulting in a waste of money. When I fed them pellets as youngsters they didn't seem to waste any. I understand that pellets are more expensive but if they are wasting 50% of their hay, it makes pellets a cheaper option. Hypothetically: If a person were to feed pellets only in the winter, how much does a person feed them since they won't have browse in my area until spring? 3 of the boys are 22 months old and I have one 6 yr old.

[Nanno]

I'm not sure how much you would have to feed if you were feeding 100% pellets. You'll probably have to experiment. One problem with pelleted feed is that they snarf it all down at once and then don't have anything to browse on throughout the day. Since goats are browsers by nature their rumens like to have something to work on throughout the day and hay takes longer to munch through than pellets.

One thing I've found with goats is that they are very picky about hay quality. Ever since I started feeding 3rd or 4th cutting alfalfa and high quality grass I've had very little waste. Also, I'm careful not to feed too much. It's easy to do. If I'm sure my hay is good quality and they're still leaving leftovers, I start feeding less. I decrease the amount until they're cleaning up the scraps, then I give just a little more than that from there on out. A little hunger goes a long way. They won't starve from having not-quite-enough-hay for a couple of days while you figure out exactly how much they actually need (which is very different from how much they say they want!). If the hay they tossed on the ground still looks clean and dry, I'll rake it up and put it back in the feeder. They don't get more until those leftovers are gone. If the hay quality is somewhat dubious I don't make them clean up every scrap. I rake up the waste and use it for bedding.

[Sanhestar]

Pellet feeding is "dangerous" on several levels. Nanno already mentioned how fast pellets are eaten and how much time of the day is left after that.

As ruminants, goats don't need as much browsing time than horses, so I don't agree 100% that they need to eat a lot during the day.

BUT, they need a lot fiber to ruminate on during the day and depending on the pellet and how they are made, the fiber structure can be too fine for proper rumination and will therefore reduce digestablility and other digestive processes, like chewing over and over, suffusing the cud with saliva, which aids in the digestion and protects the stomach lining.

A lot of pellets contain finely ground "meal" (flowerlike consistence) instead of still recogniseable fiber.

So, it you want to feed pellets you would have to make sure that your choice contains still enough fiber that the rumination process runs smoothly. As most pellets are made either for horses or cattle (which in general live much shorter lifes than our packgoats) the need for fiber that is large enough for rumination is not great. Large amounts of pellets that sit in the rumen without being brought up for chewing cud will cause in the longterm health problems (maldigestion, risk of stomach ulcers, insufficient wear on the teeth, unwanted behaviours from boredom).

You need to come up with ways to give pellets at least twice a day, more often would be better without them wasting the pellets or overeating. Remember, that the pellets, if fed dry will add volume in the rumen as soon as they get in contact with the stomach fluids. Barfing down pellets also increases the risk of gullet obstructions.

So you might want to let the pellets soak before feeding which puts you on a time schedule every day. You can't let soaked pellets sit for too long in freezing temperatures for obvious reasons and if it gets warmer they go bad much faster, too.

I have found so far only two brands of hay pellets that have fiber large enough that the goats in question still ruminate.

I also second that you need to look at the quality of your hay. When was it cut, is it coarse, fine, has it a high amount of grasses only, maybe even only one grass species. Are there herbs in it, weeds? Is it moldy, discoloured? Can you get hay from other sources?

And as already mentioned, it is a fact of life that goats are messy eaters. In nature they keep healthy that way.

[dutch007]

Pellet feeding is "dangerous" on several levels. Nanno already mentioned how fast pellets are eaten and how much time of the day is left after that.

As ruminants, goats don't need as much browsing time than horses, so I don't agree 100% that they need to eat a lot during the day.

BUT, they need a lot fiber to ruminate on during the day and depending on the pellet and how they are made, the fiber structure can be too fine for proper rumination and will therefore reduce digestablility and other digestive processes, like chewing over and over, suffusing the cud with saliva, which aids in the digestion and protects the stomach lining.

A lot of pellets contain finely ground "meal" (flowerlike consistence) instead of still recogniseable fiber.

So, it you want to feed pellets you would have to make sure that your choice contains still enough fiber that the rumination process runs smoothly. As most pellets are made either for horses or cattle (which in general live much shorter lifes than our packgoats) the need for fiber that is large enough for rumination is not great. Large amounts of pellets that sit in the rumen without being brought up for chewing cud will cause in the longterm health problems (maldigestion, risk of stomach ulcers, insufficient wear on the teeth, unwanted behaviours from boredom).

You need to come up with ways to give pellets at least twice a day, more often would be better without them wasting the pellets or overeating. Remember, that the pellets, if fed dry will add volume in the rumen as soon as they get in contact with the stomach fluids. Barfing down pellets also increases the risk of gullet obstructions.

So you might want to let the pellets soak before feeding which puts you on a time schedule every day. You can't let soaked pellets sit for too long in freezing temperatures for obvious reasons and if it gets warmer they go bad much faster, too.

I have found so far only two brands of hay pellets that have fiber large enough that the goats in question still ruminate.

I also second that you need to look at the quality of your hay. When was it cut, is it coarse, fine, has it a high amount of grasses only, maybe even only one grass species. Are there herbs in it, weeds? Is it moldy, discoloured? Can you get hay from other sources?

And as already mentioned, it is a fact of life that goats are messy eaters. In nature they keep healthy that way.

The quality of the hay is quite good, but is a very fine timothy. I fed them 2nd cut alfalfa last fall\winter, but they seemed to waste just as much. Maybe I try a 3rd cutting. I don't give them much for pellets unless I'm trimming hooves. Then I give them some alfalfa pellets as a treat/distraction while trimming or before a long hike or trail run. After almost 2 years of raising the boys I still feel as if I don't have their nutrition needs dialed in perfectly. I guess they are healthy, growing and are full of piss and vinegar, so I must be doing it somewhat right, I think.

[Nanno]

I've fed goats on fine timothy before and haven't had problems with waste as long as I'm not feeding too much. I say cut their ration way down and see what happens. Goats tend to waste 1st cutting alfalfa because of the stems, but 2nd cutting is usually plenty fine enough for goats who still have their teeth. I only started getting late cutting alfalfa when my old goat Cuzco stopped being able to chew stems a couple of years ago. The type of hay they waste most is anything brown. I've found they'll happily eat weedy hay but not brown, dry hay.

One thing grass hay does not have is enough calcium. This is where alfalfa or alfalfa pellets are important. These contain the calcium your goats need to grow properly and absorb their other minerals. So while I don't recommend feeding them an exclusive diet of alfalfa pellets, I definitely recommend it as a daily supplement if you're feeding grass hay. I feed my old goat Cuzco about 2 cups of alfalfa pellets every morning and every evening, but he gets a lot because he can't eat much else. Younger goats who are eating other hay should probably get about 1/2 or even a 1/4 of that--maybe 1 or 2 cups/day as a supplement to their regular diet. Maybe try feeding alfalfa pellets in the morning and hay at night. If they've been wasting half their hay, then cut their ration in half and see what happens. They probably don't need as much as you're giving and this invites them to waste it.

[dutch007]

I've fed goats on fine timothy before and haven't had problems with waste as long as I'm not feeding too much. I say cut their ration way down and see what happens. Goats tend to waste 1st cutting alfalfa because of the stems, but 2nd cutting is usually plenty fine enough for goats who still have their teeth. I only started getting late cutting alfalfa when my old goat Cuzco stopped being able to chew stems a couple of years ago. The type of hay they waste most is anything brown. I've found they'll happily eat weedy hay but not brown, dry hay.

One thing grass hay does not have is enough calcium. This is where alfalfa or alfalfa pellets are important. These contain the calcium your goats need to grow properly and absorb their other minerals. So while I don't recommend feeding them an exclusive diet of alfalfa pellets, I definitely recommend it as a daily supplement if you're feeding grass hay. I feed my old goat Cuzco about 2 cups of alfalfa pellets every morning and every evening, but he gets a lot because he can't eat much else. Younger goats who are eating other hay should probably get about 1/2 or even a 1/4 of that--maybe 1 or 2 cups/day as a supplement to their regular diet. Maybe try feeding alfalfa pellets in the morning and hay at night. If they've been wasting half their hay, then cut their ration in half and see what happens. They probably don't need as much as you're giving and this invites them to waste it.

With 3, 2 year olds and a 6 six, how many leafs of hay would you give them per day? I generally just fill the feeder when it is empty 

[Nanno]

That's a tricky question because hay flakes don't really come in standard sizes and goats don't come with standard requirements. But in general four wethers will probably eat 2-4 flakes/day depending on the size, weight, and quality of the flakes, the time of year, the weather, how much other pasture/browse is available, how much exercise they get, and whether any of them are going through growth spurts. Sometimes my boys will easily polish off one flake per day each, and other times it takes two of them two days to make it through a single flake. I often find that my goats pig out when I first start feeding hay, but as the novelty wears off their appetites taper off with it. Good luck figuring it all out!

[dutch007]

That's a tricky question because hay flakes don't really come in standard sizes and goats don't come with standard requirements. But in general four wethers will probably eat 2-4 flakes/day depending on the size, weight, and quality of the flakes, the time of year, the weather, how much other pasture/browse is available, how much exercise they get, and whether any of them are going through growth spurts. Sometimes my boys will easily polish off one flake per day each, and other times it takes two of them two days to make it through a single flake. I often find that my goats pig out when I first start feeding hay, but as the novelty wears off their appetites taper off with it. Good luck figuring it all out!

Nanno,
I appreciate the information. I have actually solved the waste problem that I had with the switch to a keyhole style feed system. It has 
reduced my waste to less than 1% of what I give them. The little bit that spills over the back of the feeder I just put back in and it ends up getting eatin.
I don't know why I didn't do this sooner. With the 3 youngins and 1 mature wether they go through 3/4 of a bale per week.     

[Nanno]

I'm glad to hear you got your feeding situation worked out. A good feeder makes a world of difference. Yours looks very nice! I can't use keyhole feeders because of my horned goats, but I recently bought a Priefert goat feeder I saw on sale. It's got a hay rack on top with a plastic feed trough below to catch the hay that falls through. It's working really well and almost no hay goes on the ground.