What did you do today?

[blackie's maiden]

Haha! Charlie Horse, you forget we are tropical birds. We will follow the migrating ducks back to Texas, flapping our arms as hard as we can, before the first snow flake falls. This is hopefully to be a summer escape from the Texas heat only.

[Nanno]

I hope it all works out for the best!

[blackie's maiden]

Thanks, Nan.

[Nanno]

I drew blood today and I did amazing, even if I do say so myself!! I've never been so successful. I had five goats to draw--one of mine and four for a friend. Phil and I usually both end up frustrated when he has to hold goats for me to draw blood, but this time he held the goat just right. It helped that it was Coral and she's the sweetest, most patient little goat in the world and stood perfectly without flinching. I found the vein immediately and got it on the first poke, so I felt quite confident when I drew blood on the four other goats for my friend. Three of the goats went just like Coral... found the vein in two seconds and had the needle in on the first jab.

One goat gave me trouble. I couldn't find the vein to save my life. I poked the needle in once when I thought maybe I found it, but I was wrong. I kept feeling and feeling on both sides. I even tried choking off her whole neck for a few seconds to see if the vein would bulge but it refused to appear. We walked her around the pen to see if we could get her circulation going. She wasn't a fat doe but she had a very fleshy neck and thick hair. She was super cooperative but I almost wonder if she was plain TOO relaxed! Anyway, after what must have been close to ten minutes, I was kneeling there with my hand on the doe's neck and staring absently toward her legs while I tried to find the vein purely by feel. It was then that I noticed the prominent veins that run down the insides of the front legs and I said, "BINGO!"

I've held babies for my vet when she puts them under to disbud, and we always use a leg vein. The same vet also once used a leg vein on our buck, Rocky, because his neck was so thick and fleshy she couldn't find the vein (it always makes me feel better when sometimes even the experts are defeated). I'd never drawn blood from a leg before, but I thought since I could SEE the darn blood vessel staring me right in the face even without me raising it, it couldn't be too hard to hit with a needle. I picked up the doe's leg and started to poke but she flinched back and I realized I'd need a smaller needle. I was using a 1 1/2" 18 gauge needle on the necks, but that was much too big for a leg vein. Luckily I had some 3/4" 22 gauge needles in the bag and I grabbed one. I had it in there on the first jab. It took a little longer to draw because of the small needle, but the doe was quiet and I was able to get a full sample. I was so proud of myself I almost did a happy dance. I think next time I might actually feel confident when it comes time to draw blood! I'm usually a bit nervous, and my repeated failed attempts never help.

I'm going to have to tell my vet. Usually when she helps me draw blood, she starts out holding goats and after about two I have to hand her the syringes in shame and let her do the rest, not only so it doesn't take all morning but also for the sake of both our sanity and the goats' necks. I have been slowly getting better over the years, but I've never been THIS good! Wheeee!!!

[Nanno]

We had a scare today. I got a call from the fellow I sold Max to a couple of years ago. Apparently Max (now called Axel) came back from a pack trip on Thursday and was not feeling well by the end of it. He was under the weather all day Friday and was still not well this morning so his owner called me to see what I thought. At first I agreed with the owner that it could be dehydration and an upset rumen. He hadn't drunk much on the pack trip and now his temperature was 98* and the owner couldn't hear any rumen sounds. I grabbed a box of medical stuff and headed over to Beulah where Axel lives.

When I got there Axel sure didn't look good. He was very lethargic and didn't flinch when I gave him 12 cc's of Vitamin B complex under the skin. That's a bad sign right there! I also gave him 20 cc's of C&D antitoxin without a reaction. He made faces when I squirted probiotic paste into his mouth, but a goat his size (over 200 lbs and he's only two years old!) should be really hard to medicate if he were feeling himself. I also gave him 2 cc's of banamine (and I was able to use a leg vein which I hit with the first poke--happy dance!!!). We got him up and walked him around a little and I was able to hear rumen noises. Also, his temperature had gone back up over 100* so I hoped he was over the hump but as we walked him he started stretching. As the banamine kicked in he started stretching more often into the sawhorse position and looking as though he expected something to happen, but nothing ever did. It was looking more and more like he was blocked.

I had the owner call his vet's emergency line and he was able to get Axel in this afternoon at 4:00. I heard back a couple of hours later and they'd removed the pizzle and Axel had been able to relieve himself, passing several stones in the process. I hope the owner is able to have the stones analyzed to see if they are calcium or phosphorus. That should offer clues as to what might have caused them and how to prevent them from forming in the future.

This really concerns me because Axel's half brother who is one year older got stones this past April, also right after a pack trip. He had to have surgery to remove them. I hope this is just a nasty coincidence and not a genetic problem related to their sire, Rambo, because I used Rambo extensively in my herd for a couple of years and I have a lot of his daughters and granddaughters.

[Kat]

Thanks for sharing that and I am really sorry it happened; my vet told me that a farm near me lost 2 of their goats to this (not pack goats.)  It is a background concern in my mind.  Do you think both of these Rambo-line goats became dehydrated on the trail and this precipitated the attack?

I stuff one of these  ultralight dog water bowls in the pocket of my backpack for quick water stops on the trail for my goats. I got a taller custom size for them.  I've found at least a couple of them will always drink out of it, they don't seem to hydrate enough at streams while we're hiking.  I am hoping this will help prevent stones - along with the proper balanced calcium/phosphorus diet of course.  I also feed a bit of ammonium chloride 2x/month as a precaution and AC is in their mineral mix.

[Nanno]

Yes, I'm sure both got dehydrated (most usually do when they are inexperienced), but of course the stones would have formed beforehand so the dehydration would only show a problem that had started some time earlier. I bring collapsible bowls for my goats too, but as they've gotten older they've learned to drink from creeks and ponds.

I recently read a really good analysis of the two types of stones (phosphorus and calcium) which I plan to post here this coming week. Funny, but I read that analysis yesterday morning just before Axel's owner called, so stones were very much on my mind when I went over there.

[Nanno]

And actually, I just realized that the two boys that got UC are not related at all. Sox was from Rocky who was not related to Rambo, and neither Sox nor Axel's mothers were related either. So that wrecks the genetic link theory.

[Kat]

Probably a relief for you to know they are not related after all.

[Nanno]

It's a huge relief but also slightly frustrating. It would be heartbreaking to know that Rambo's offspring were prone to UC since that would mean contacting all my buyers for the last three years and keeping a hawks eye on my own herd. However, if it were indeed a genetic problem it would be easier to start culling that line than to look for other causes. I'm convinced these are probably calcium stones, not phosphorus. Axel has hard water where he lives and some alfalfa grows wild in his pasture. I'm not sure what could have caused Sox's stones but from the owner's description they sounded like the calcium type (smooth and roundish rather than sandy with rough edges). Calcium stones are thought to be less common, but I think this may only be true in the meat goat world where grain is pushed on wethers from a young age to get them quickly to butcher weight. Ammonium chloride is the accepted treatment for the phosphorus stones commonly found in meat goats, but it according to the research I'm reading right now, it does not do anything to calcium stones. However, vinegar may dissolve calcium stones, and magnesium supplements may prevent them from forming in the first place. I'm eager to post the info here as soon as I get the time!