Portuguese Native Breed Goats as Packer Prospects!

[CaminhoDeCabras]

Hi Guys,

So we're based in Portugal where the 'classic' pack goat breeds are hard to come by.

We managed to find one guy with a herd of alpines and alpine crosses, but they did not look well cared for nor healthy. We decided to walk away from those as unhealthy goats are obviously no good for packing no matter what the breed.

The healthiest looking goats we found are all Portuguese natives - extremely hardy, eat anything, go anywhere types of goats. They have floppy ears to cope with the heat (which can get up to 40c or 104f in the height of summer) and some do get quite big and leggy, helping them range over the very rough terrain of boulders and prickly brush.

These breeds tend not to be super well standardised. Mongrel native mixes are common and are appreciated for their rusticity. They are more popular here than globally-known commercial meat and dairy breeds as they tend to fare better!

We've got a couple of kids of a very local type that has been kept here for hundreds of years. I am no expert in choosing pack goat prospects, especially in breeds that as far I know have never been packed and don't look much like any of your guys' goats. We picked a very big yellow boy (the shepherd, who is breeding for size and docility, said this kid would grow up huge and kept his brother as an up-and-coming breeder). This one was also very friendly and curious. We also picked a slightly smaller black boy (a week or two younger as well) who has what we thought was the nicest conformation of the kids available. We were looking for straight backs, long legs, straight pasterns, etc... His bucks were massive goats but all extremely tame and gentle. They all went out twice a day for several hours to graze up the mountain with the shepherd

One of my concerns is that I have heard that 'floppy ears don't pack' a lot, with reference to your American Nubians. Despite having floppy ears, these guys are very much a European breed. They have a slight North African influence, but are more closely related to other European breeds such as the various Spanish breeds and (more distantly) Swiss, French, Carpathian goats and even, supposedly, traces of Iberian Ibex. I have no idea if they have 'the right stuff' in terms of personality, but they are bred to be extremely gentle, rustic and willing/able to walk all day with a shepherd, so who knows. They are definitely very loving and follow us everywhere, also walking on the lead beautifully.

I'd love to know your thoughts on their looks. They are around 3 months old now and will be castrated soon. They were raised in a barn until we got them (not ideal, I know) and so I know they do need to put on some muscle - but do you think any raw potential is there at all? They are perhaps a little more swaybacked than ideal (or maybe I'm being paranoid) but no goat has ever been bred to pack in Portugal and we would eventually be looking to improve on this type of genetics in future through a breeding project.

We're hoping to get a couple more of different native breeds and see which work out best, so this is very much experimental!

Pictures here! ---> https://imgur.com/a/DTdKDnl

[Nanno]

I'm bumping this as a reminder to myself to read it again and reply. I've had a very busy couple of days and I don't want to forget because it looks very interesting!

[Charlie Horse]

THose look like they're going to be great pack goats. Good find. I'll be interested to hear how they do in the future. I have some floppy ear goats and they're some of my best. Its all about the personality. Even short legs dont stop an enthusiastic goat!

[Nanno]

I think your goats look wonderful! Droopy ears do not rule them out as working goats! I intentionally cross my Alpines with long-eared Nubians because I like the milder Nubian personalities, the extra muscling, and better feet and legs that the Nubians typically have. I also hike in warm temperatures a lot and the large ears are probably a goat's best means of keeping cool. My crosses seem to have more endurance and recover more quickly when hiking in hot weather than the pure Swiss breeds. The thinner, sleeker coats also help keep them cooler. I think you're fellas will do just grand!

I think choosing from your native breeds was a wise decision. Hardiness in your environment is more important than almost anything else. Your goat can't pack and won't even be happy or healthy at home if his genetics are not suited to your area.

Best of luck with your packgoat adventures! Keep us updated on your progress!

[CaminhoDeCabras]

THose look like they're going to be great pack goats. Good find. I'll be interested to hear how they do in the future. I have some floppy ear goats and they're some of my best. Its all about the personality. Even short legs dont stop an enthusiastic goat!

Thanks Charlie Horse, I'll update the thread as they grow, We're hoping to get a couple more this week of a different native breed.

I think your goats look wonderful! Droopy ears do not rule them out as working goats! I intentionally cross my Alpines with long-eared Nubians because I like the milder Nubian personalities, the extra muscling, and better feet and legs that the Nubians typically have. I also hike in warm temperatures a lot and the large ears are probably a goat's best means of keeping cool. My crosses seem to have more endurance and recover more quickly when hiking in hot weather than the pure Swiss breeds. The thinner, sleeker coats also help keep them cooler. I think you're fellas will do just grand!

I think choosing from your native breeds was a wise decision. Hardiness in your environment is more important than almost anything else. Your goat can't pack and won't even be happy or healthy at home if his genetics are not suited to your area.

Best of luck with your packgoat adventures! Keep us updated on your progress!

Thank you so much for the reassurance, Nanno! I must say when we took them out yesterday it was rather warm and I did find myself thinking that it's a good job they do have those ears to help keep them cool. Summers here can be pretty hot and dusty.

We're already seeing a big difference in their personalities. The black one is very clever and loves to climb and push himself, walking in step with us all the way. The blonde one is considerably less clever and lags behind a lot, running to catch up when he realises how far ahead we've got, and getting his head stuck in things. But then again he's a bigger, stronger boy, so their pros and cons even out! I'm so curious to see how a couple more goats will change the dynamic and how their natural hierarchy will develop.

I'll keep the thread updated with pictures! :-)

[Nanno]

I love how different goats are from each other. They are so full of individual personality! Hopefully with time and training your blonde fella will learn how to be a good packgoat. He appears to have the better conformation of the two, but brains, attitude, aptitude, and athleticism are every bit as important as good structure. I find that attitude can largely be trained though. A "lazy" goat can learn to have a good work ethic if you make sure he's in good physical shape and he gets used to hiking as a way of life. Once they learn to work, the lazy ones sometimes give less trouble because they aren't wasting energy (and giving you heart attacks) by climbing steep, narrow ledges off the trail and starting fights with your other packgoats. They may become the "Steady Eddies" of your pack string who just quietly do their job and get it done with.