General care and pack goat maintenance. All welcome to post

[Dave-Trinity-Farms]

Pretty much the only mineral that would need to be dealt with per each persons area is selenium.

[TOU]

Great stuff!

[Duck-Slayer]

I got a question being new too the pack goat stuff, I got 3 wethers and we strictly have fed them straight alfalfa, is this ok? we do have a (red) mineral/salt block in with them, don't remember what it was, been in there about 5 months, is this a decent diet for them? I take them out almost daily too eat the newly emerging weeds/grass, they also graze on our 3 acre pasture during the summer when I let them out daily.
Matt

[Dave-Trinity-Farms]

Salt blocks dont work for goats. Need to find a loose mineral mix. The alfalfa is fine IMO as long as you treat them every 2-4 weeks with some Ammonium Chloride

[Duck-Slayer]

Salt blocks dont work for goats. Need to find a loose mineral mix. The alfalfa is fine IMO as long as you treat them every 2-4 weeks with some Ammonium Chloride

Ammonium Chloride where do I get that, does it come in a powder? how do I give it too the goats? I saw at D&B they have a goat mineral block, should I get a couple of those? http://mydbsupply.com/shop/uncategorized...b__926618/
Matt

[Dave-Trinity-Farms]

Blocks dont work because goats need a lot more minerals then they can get outta a block. If the block is hard enough, they will wear their teeth down trying to get at it. So a loose mineral mix is what you need to be looking for. If possible stay away from oxide and sulfate based minerals for the 4 main ones that goats need. Its impossible to find a proper mix but with some hunting you can get close. I just ran to the Ki-Bi Red Apple here in Benton City and picked up a decent bag for Nebs. Ill take a picture and post it along with the manufacturer. Its not ideal by any means but its decent in that not all of the main minerals are just oxide/sulfate based. You can check out my link to my opinion of the perfect mix at the start of this thread.

Ammonium Chloride cant normally be found at a locale feed store so I like to order mine from hoeggers. Here is a link. I suggest to get 2 bags. 1 to mix into a 50 lbs bag of mineral mix and one to just keep handy for treatments. I like to give Legion 1 1/2 table spoons sprinkled on a small scoop of grain (this is the only time he gets grain) every 2-4 weeks just to make sure he is getting enough. Hard to monitor if each goat is getting enough out of their mineral mix. http://hoeggerfarmyard.com/xcart/Ammonium-Chloride.html

[Duck-Slayer]

Blocks dont work because goats need a lot more minerals then they can get outta a block. If the block is hard enough, they will wear their teeth down trying to get at it. So a loose mineral mix is what you need to be looking for. If possible stay away from oxide and sulfate based minerals for the 4 main ones that goats need. Its impossible to find a proper mix but with some hunting you can get close. I just ran to the Ki-Bi Red Apple here in Benton City and picked up a decent bag for Nebs. Ill take a picture and post it along with the manufacturer. Its not ideal by any means but its decent in that not all of the main minerals are just oxide/sulfate based. You can check out my link to my opinion of the perfect mix at the start of this thread.

Ammonium Chloride cant normally be found at a locale feed store so I like to order mine from hoeggers. Here is a link. I suggest to get 2 bags. 1 to mix into a 50 lbs bag of mineral mix and one to just keep handy for treatments. I like to give Legion 1 1/2 table spoons sprinkled on a small scoop of grain (this is the only time he gets grain) every 2-4 weeks just to make sure he is getting enough. Hard to monitor if each goat is getting enough out of their mineral mix. http://hoeggerfarmyard.com/xcart/Ammonium-Chloride.html

ordered some Ammonium Chloride, thanks for all the help,
Matt

[GorgeG.O.A.T.]

Here is the first part of the how to page. If anyone can think of anything I might of missed thats important, please feel free to say so.

Feed and the 2:1 Ratio

There are many options and opinions in the goat world about what is the best feed for goats. For this section I will focus on what is best for wethers (castrated male goats). As feed is the most important, aspect of goat herdsmenship,  I will spend more time and provide more information then other areas.

When choosing whats best to feed your pack goat wether, there are many things to consider. The most important is how that feed plays into the standard 2:1 diet ratio. The 2:1 ratio is calcium vs phosphorus. The undisputed ideal 2:1 ratio, should be followed as close as possible. It is widely thought that the higher the imbalance of this ratio, the greater the likely hood a wethered goat will develop URINARY CALCULI (urinary stones or UC for short).  Below is a generalized analysis of some of the different kinds of hay and grain one can feed their pack goat.

::::::: FEED ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::CALCIUM (%) ::::::::::::::::::::::: PHOSPHORUS (%)

Alfalfa hay, (midbloom)_________ 1.24 _______________________ 0.22
Bermuda hay, 29-42 days________0,30 _______________________ 0.19
Oat Hay_____________________0.29 _______________________ 0.23
Orchardgrass hay, early_________ 0.24 _______________________ 0.30
Timothy hay, midbloom_________ 0.43 _______________________ 0.20

Barley grain__________________0.05 _______________________ 0.34
Beet pulp, dehydrated___________ 0.62 _______________________ 0.09
Corn grain___________________0.05 _______________________ 0.27
Oat grain____________________0.05 _______________________ 0.34
Riuce bran___________________0.09 _______________________ 1.5

Keep in mind, this is a general analysis and should be used only as a guideline.  But as you can see, its nearly impossible to find a hay that falls into the ideal ratio. Grass hays come closer, which is to be expected. But grass hays are low in protein, vitamins and minerals. Of all the feed choices listed, Alfalfa is by far the best in terms of nutritional value with average protein levels between 16% and 24%. Alfalfa also has the highest calcium level. Two very important factors when growing young pack goats or maintaining the condition of hard working goats. The main problem with alfalfa is the ratio imbalance. And with the higher protein and nutrients, its quite easy to over feed and make your goat fat if he/she is not working hard enough to burn off the extra calories. There is also a difference in the amount you feed grass hay vs. alfalfa hay. Grass hay can be fed free choice. Meaning, as much as they can eat. Alfalfa should be limited to one good sized flake per adult goat per day. Possibly less if they have free choice access to a good quality browse. Regardless of what hay you decide to feed your goats, it is important that it be a high quality hay. I cant stress this enough. If you settle for crap hay, expect a crap goat.

My Personal Opinion and Thoughts:

The majority of a goats growth is done between birth and 3 years of age. From the time a baby can start eating hay (around the 3-4 week mark) I believe they should have a good quality alfalfa in front of them. (NOTE: It is suggested that instead of presenting kids with hay at first you should use grain instead as it easier on their system. Its easier to digest and conditions their rumin better). You will maximize your goats growth and condition with alfalfa. The higher calcium will actually benefit in bone growth. The higher protein, nutrients, minerals and vitamins will all aid in all areas of development. I believe alfalfa should be feed until the kid is around one year old. At this point I would switch over to a 50/50 grass/alfalfa mix. I would feed this grass/alfalfa mix for the next two years. Then at the age of three I would evaluate their growth and condition, how hard and how often they are working (packing). With most of their growth done, its at this time I would possibly change over to a straight grass hay. I would also most likely feed a grass/alfalfa mix during the winter months to help maintain condition. Many pack goat owners would disagree with this and suggest grass hay either from the start or much sooner because of the imbalance in the 2:1 ratio and the fear of UC. I counter the imbalance with supplements and the use of AMMONIUM CHLORIDE. Both of which will be covered below.

Hey Dave. This is interesting. I was looking at 3 pack goats today and the gentleman that owned them told me that goats eat mostly shrubs and trees. That grass should only account for 15% of their diet. I have a farm that is mostly grass and some blackberry bushes. I feed my current 3 yr old wether grass hay grain and oats. Besides whatever he munches on around the farm. Hes been fine but does like it when I bring him fir branches. I am almost reconsidering whether my property is appropriate for goats. Thanks for the info!

[Nanno]

Dave hasn't been around the forums for quite a while, but I think your property will be fine for goats. Goats do prefer a lot of weeds and brush over grass if they can get it, but most of our goats must settle for eating grass most of the time because we all feed hay. I have a mix of brush, weeds, and grass on my land and my goats choose grass a lot of the time.

[GorgeG.O.A.T.]

The guy that has the goats told me he gets all the leftover christmas trees and keeps them for the goats. I thought that was a good idea. I live near a lot of logging land so I'm sure I can find some stuff to give them. Thanks for the reassurance!