What did you do today?

[hihobaron]

Hm.  Thats actually a really good idea.  I'd say its about the cheapest way to enclose a volume of space that large.   Good thinking!  I'd be sure to put plastic caps on the T-posts if horses are going to be involved just for safety.

Hello Charlie Horse
Thanks for the response glad you like the idea. I have used similar structures in desert environments oversea's to protect horses for SPC Opp"s horses ,  Except there it was old Cargo chute's for the top. 
I am a firm believer in electric fence so do have some of the nice tee post top caps that I already planed on putting on top of post.
FYI: I have put up similar shelters with NO tube gate panels just Cattle Panels arched and staked down around the edges and tarp spread on top.
That at about 8 foot wide gives about 5 foot inside height good for goats, donkeys,mini horses. a little dicey with horned goats though.
 I see many of the people here use what looks like plywood shelters that look like creep feed calf huts yes, I come from Dairy background.
 In my case Like I mentioned I set this up for my (to be) pack goats, but had the materials to make it big enough for a horse if needed as I do have 5 here with a wide variety of talents, S&R, Mounted Police, Driving, packing, Mounted shooting, 2 are attached to me at the hip as people tell me. Both of them are Retired Mounted Police Horses I trained and used. BTY they have been around goats and not killed any. Now my 2 year old Frisian filly is making up her mind still about what to do with goats when they follow up to barn and slip into horse pasture.
She "Marginal Tolerates then so far"
I am letting the kids run free most of the day here and anytime I am outside they keep in visual range and tag along were I go.
Is that a good start for a pack goat? Yes they get stalled in my horse trailer at night for now.Rubber mates,chip bedding hay manger and water bucket. Seem happy to jump in when it gets dark.
They also when I settle down outside will come in settle down and chew the cud while I have a drink and listen to the radio.
They seem to like Rush Limbow Talk Radio .  I don't mind that.  You think they could be Republican Goats?

Hm.  Thats actually a really good idea.  I'd say its about the cheapest way to enclose a volume of space that large.   Good thinking!  I'd be sure to put plastic caps on the T-posts if horses are going to be involved just for safety.

Hello Charlie Horse
Thanks for the response glad you like the idea. I have used similar structures in desert environments oversea's to protect horses for SPC Opp"s horses ,  Except there it was old Cargo chute's for the top. 
I am a firm believer in electric fence so do have some of the nice tee post top caps that I already planed on putting on top of post.
FYI: I have put up similar shelters with NO tube gate panels just Cattle Panels arched and staked down around the edges and tarp spread on top.
That at about 8 foot wide gives about 5 foot inside height good for goats, donkeys,mini horses. a little dicey with horned goats though.
 I see many of the people here use what looks like plywood shelters that look like creep feed calf huts yes, I come from Dairy background.
 In my case Like I mentioned I set this up for my (to be) pack goats, but had the materials to make it big enough for a horse if needed as I do have 5 here with a wide variety of talents, S&R, Mounted Police, Driving, packing, Mounted shooting, 2 are attached to me at the hip as people tell me. Both of them are Retired Mounted Police Horses I trained and used. BTY they have been around goats and not killed any. Now my 2 year old Frisian filly is making up her mind still about what to do with goats when they follow up to barn and slip into horse pasture.
She "Marginal Tolerates then so far"
I am letting the kids run free most of the day here and anytime I am outside they keep in visual range and tag along were I go.
Is that a good start for a pack goat? Yes they get stalled in my horse trailer at night for now.Rubber mates,chip bedding hay manger and water bucket. Seem happy to jump in when it gets dark.
They also when I settle down outside will come in settle down and chew the cud while I have a drink and listen to the radio.
They seem to like Rush Limbow Talk Radio .  I don't mind that.  You think they could be Republican Goats?

I hope I can get some goat people even just day hikers to use goats in my area. Then go from there.
BTY: I like your Avatar
Happy Trails
hihobaron

[hihobaron]

    Hello All
After all the Rain here in South Carolina like 9 inches this week. It seems to be tapering off. But now they are talking highs in mid-50's.
 Today's GOAT escapades.
Ya'll have heard of "Goats on the Roof" ??
Well today I had a little different occurrence. Goats under the Trailer.
As I have mentioned I am training the boys to stay in close to camp they are getting the idea. I have my own goat playground in the natural terrain around camp so they are happy to play on the rough terrain and woods around the camp. They also are doing  one of their other jobs of brush clearing, they must like what is in the woods here I think they are both putting on weight.
Well mid-afternoon I was in camp napping, wet outside no projects do able.
All of a sudden there was a earth quake or it felt that way. All kinds of thumping and banging under me. so I stepped outside to see what was going on. Sam the Black and White Wether 7 months old was by the door bleating. No Pete around, they do stick together well and I encourage it.
Ok so I start calling for Pete, Yes they know there names and "Most" of the time come in fast when called. They get a treat for coming in. 
Well I could hear a bleat from under the trailer !!!!!,walked around and looked under trailer ,Yep Pete was under there with a look like How did I get here? Get me out. I told him you got there find your own way out. Just Crawl out. He sat there and Bleated at me.
Ok fine goats need "Incentive" like food?

OK ,went and got a can of feed rattled it at him and with a bunch of grunts and crawling on his knees he came out  with some thumping and banging.  Good thing he did not have horns to catch on stuff.
So no goats under the trailer. Who knows why he decided to go under there to begin with ???

[hihobaron]

Hello All
This may seem a different type of Goat Story to tell here.
I went to the dump with farm trash (OH to be Politically Correct "Refuse Recycling Center" )
Was unloading truck and a man of mature years years pulled in next to me. Started emptying barrels of grass clippings and chopped leaf. I made the comment " You could have fed that to a couple goats. Said in humor.
His attention perked up, "You have goats was his question" Yes my reply.
He asked "What do you use them for" I told him "Pack Goats". Yes, they are not right now but will be soon.
He goes "What is that??" So I gave him the "Short Story" His reply was "All He thought goats were good for was Milk and Meat"
So another Pack Goat Educational Opportunity for what ever it is worth.
Before somebody here jumps on me for feeding goats chopped grass and dead leaves I know better than to do it.
It was used as a conversation opener.
Happy Trails
hihobaron

[Dave-Trinity-Farms]

Actually, I cut my teeth on a farm that let all the locale tree trimmers and grass cutters dump their refuge on her land. The goats liked the leaves and bark from the tree trimmers and the cows enjoyed the grass. Now there were concerns/problems. Like what chemicals have been put on the grass and there were some issues with them bringing in Japaneses Yew (deadly to all animals in small amounts) but it worked pretty well there. That farms main income was from pulling out the wood, seasoning it, cutting and splitting it.

Not something I would do with my animals now unless I fully trusted the grass cutter / tree trimmer. Not an easy thing with those in that industry.

[Nanno]

Phil and I practiced driving Finn and Sputnik today! They'll be 18 months old soon and they're getting quite big. They easily fit the harnesses now, and are even tall enough to hitch to the cart. I've ground driven them a little on their own, and today I tried ground driving them as a team. It was mostly a disaster, but I'm sure we'll work it out eventually. I need to figure out how to get my two single driving harnesses to talk to each other, and I need team reins. I don't have the right parts, but I'm pretty sure I can make them. Since the team driving wasn't working out very well, I decided to get the cart and work with them one at a time. Finn walked off like he owned that cart! He leaned right into the harness and he never missed a beat as the empty cart bumped and rattled down the driveway. Finn did so well that I think he may even be able to pull kids around at my nephew's birthday party this weekend.

Sputnik will not be pulling anyone around until he gets some more practice first. He reared up twice while I was hitching, and he was a little skittish of the shafts bumping his sides and the noisy cart following him. He was also a little balky about leaving Finn. Even so, he was not terrible, and cookies compensated him for the grievance of leaving his buddy behind.

[hihobaron]

Nanno pid='7888' dateline='1447388194']Phil and I practiced driving Finn and Sputnik today! They'll be 18 months old soon and they're getting quite big. They easily fit the harnesses now, and are even tall enough to hitch to the cart. I've ground driven them a little on their own, and today I tried ground driving them as a team. It was mostly a disaster, but I'm sure we'll work it out eventually. I need to figure out how to get my two single driving harnesses to talk to each other, and I need team reins. I don't have the right parts, but I'm pretty sure I can make them. Since the team driving wasn't working out very well, I decided to get the cart and work with them one at a time. Finn walked off like he owned that cart! He leaned right into the harness and he never missed a beat as the empty cart bumped and rattled down the driveway. Finn did so well that I think he may even be able to pull kids around at my nephew's birthday party this weekend.

Sputnik will not be pulling anyone around until he gets some more practice first. He reared up twice while I was hitching, and he was a little skittish of the shafts bumping his sides and the noisy cart following him. He was also a little balky about leaving Finn. Even so, he was not terrible, and cookies compensated him for the grievance of leaving his buddy behind.

Hello Nano
RE: Driving Goats and team harness.
I have driven pony's as well as Draft Horse for over 20 years. Many of them I trained to harness myself.
So needless to say I like your Cart/driving ideas for your goats.
I have one of the largest Driving horse equipment and harness parts Stores on the East Coast not 5 miles away from me. 
I know the owners well 
I will get you their website address soon. Need to go there and drool on some stuff anyway.
Moving on to some of the driving things you mentioned.
Team Driving: You use a split rein one goes to the outside of the bit/halter on your near goat (Left Side) the other side goes to the off goats left side bit ring/halter Same for the Right rein to the goats . Imagine if you can you need to pull both goats heads to the right or left to turn. As the old adage with driving horses goes were you point the nose is were you go.
You will have to rework your cart/wagon. for a tongue were each goat is hooked on his separate side. 
You then use a neck yolk to carry the pole as the tongue is also called.
That is were things get interesting with goats.
Goats use a breast strap (AKA: Brest collar) type harness and have a skinny neck compared to even a pony. You have to be able to rig a way for the weight of the pole to be carried on the neck of the goat. You also have the neck yolk that attaches to the end of the pole that has a loop to hook in the front of each goat this allows the goats as they turn to your commands (both verbal and by rein) steer the cart/wagon.
One thing I have seen with pony team harness is a additional Leather wide padded strap around their neck like a goat collar but wider and padded it has a short strap the hooks into your tug on both side of both goats to keep it from rotating on the animals neck. 
A note: The Neck Yolk also works as your Break system , you would  hook your breaching (hold back) straps to the collar on the goats neck. and through that to the neck yolk and pole of the cart/wagon
As with all "Carts" you have to balance the weight your shafts put on the animal, with a pole set up and a cart the same thing applies.
The advantage of a wagon is that the only weight the animal/s carries is the weight of the pole and neck yolk. The load in the wagon is supported by all four wheels of the wagon, not split between 2 wheels and the animal like with a cart.
Moving on: 
We have covered the front end lets go to the back end
A old trick when ground driving a young team is take a piece of baler twine ( the real stuff not plastic) and tie to the inside ring of the britching to keep them from spreading out from each other especially when stopping and pressure is put on the britchen.
I like to put a snap on one end of the twine to make it easy to hook and unhook. IF they do seriously object the twine will breaks as a safety link.
I'll cover the hookup for power to the cart/wagon in a next message.
I hope you don't mind my using horse references and pictures to illustrate driving equipment and methods.
For now enjoy the following picture of one of my teams working ,You have to look close on the ground behind them but we had a contract to remove old Power Poles there are  (2) 35 foot poles being skidded up to my farm that were latter used to build a barn and several other projects. We moved about 60 poles all told. Needless to say 3200 pounds of team work did not even know the poles were there. Not something I would expect goats to do I have some other driving ideas for you but will save them for later.
Happy Trails
hihobaron

[Nanno]

Cool photo! I too have driven horses both in teams and in a single hitch. I owned a horse carriage business for two years and conducted carriage rides around the historic downtown area in Lake City, CO. My horse harnesses have work collars, so I've never driven with team breast collar harnesses, but I've been thinking about how to fabricate a piece I can attach the yoke to that won't weigh down the goats' necks. The neck strap is fairly wide and sits right in front of the withers, which is the same place where a work collar rests. If I can hook a strap into that where it can't slide forward then I don't think the yoke will be too heavy for the goats. I could even make a pad for the neck strap if necessary. A properly fabricated yoke and pole should not weigh very much. I also need to make a pole strap that attaches from the yoke to the breeching. I can repurpose the holdback straps into quarter straps. I tried attaching my two goats by the ring on the breeching, but it didn't do any good because I don't have pole and quarter straps to hold the breeching in place when the goats decide to turn and face me. All they did was pull the breeching off! I'll get it sorted eventually. I have lots of scrap nylon and a good sewing machine. I'm sure I can fabricate something. I'll need to buy some hardware first, though.

I've been daydreaming about how I would design the "ultimate" harness. The stage coach harnesses I bought for my horse carriage business are awesome--they are fully convertible from a team harness into two complete single harnesses. If I could get the same harness in breast collar style for my goats I would! The only other thing I would do differently from that harness is that I would not have buckle-in hold down straps on the shaft loops. I would use wrap-around style hold downs so the shaft loops could be repurposed into trace carriers in the team set-up. The less spare parts and pieces floating around the better!

[Taffy]

Well...........today my my friend and I gave Dude 120cc of mineral oil. I brought him into the milk room to give him his Cydectin and that went beautifully. I had all of the items that could freeze placed in a box and ready to take into the house for the winter. Dude grabbed a rubber glove that was stretched over the top of one of the teat dip applicators. I grabbed him, opened his mouth and Diona looked in and could see the glove. I held his mouth open while she tried to reach for it and the darn goat swallowed! I called Matt the vet and he said to give Dude 120cc of mineral oil. Matt said it will probably sit in his rumen for the rest of his life. Dude will probably have some loose stools.

Tomorrow Curtis King, Eldon & Debbi Otta and I are going to weigh all of our goats on our bale scale (we use it to weigh bales as they come out of the baler) and then go hiking in Horse Heaven Hills south of my farm. It's a gorgeous area full of basalt outcroppings and overlooking the Columbia River. It's my last hike of the year. I have knee surgery on Tuesday.

[hihobaron]

Nanno pid='7891' dateline='1447439395']Cool photo! I too have driven horses both in teams and in a single hitch. I owned a horse carriage business for two years and conducted carriage rides around the historic downtown area in Lake City, CO. My horse harnesses have work collars, so I've never driven with team breast collar harnesses, but I've been thinking about how to fabricate a piece I can attach the yoke to that won't weigh down the goats' necks. The neck strap is fairly wide and sits right in front of the withers, which is the same place where a work collar rests. If I can hook a strap into that where it can't slide forward then I don't think the yoke will be too heavy for the goats. I could even make a pad for the neck strap if necessary. A properly fabricated yoke and pole should not weigh very much. I also need to make a pole strap that attaches from the yoke to the breeching. I can repurpose the holdback straps into quarter straps. I tried attaching my two goats by the ring on the breeching, but it didn't do any good because I don't have pole and quarter straps to hold the breeching in place when the goats decide to turn and face me. All they did was pull the breeching off! I'll get it sorted eventually. I have lots of scrap nylon and a good sewing machine. I'm sure I can fabricate something. I'll need to buy some hardware first, though.    

I've been daydreaming about how I would design the "ultimate" harness. The stage coach harnesses I bought for my horse carriage business are awesome--they are fully convertible from a team harness into two complete single harnesses. If I could get the same harness in breast collar style for my goats I would! The only other thing I would do differently from that harness is that I would not have buckle-in hold down straps on the shaft loops. I would use wrap-around style hold downs so the shaft loops could be repurposed into trace carriers in the team set-up. The less spare parts and pieces floating around the better!

Hello Nanno
So I take it Limited " Horse references"  are OK here :)
I also have done some time in the Carriage Trade. So we have common ground there too.
Back to goat Harness Ideas.
I can remember (through the fog of time) Seeing some sort of light chain and NO Neck Yoke rig on Fine Harness Carriage Driving with either Saddlebreds or Maybe Walking Horses, Possibly Morgans.
You could substitute nylon rope or web straps for chain.???
I to have had the experience of the team turning around in harness and facing you with the britching  hanging between them. (Horses)
I have driven Unicorn hitches and they are in my opinion the hardest to drive as you can fold back that lead animal alongside the wheel team and get into a wreck real fast.

On a wet cold night up there.
Look up the Circus World Museum in Baraboo, Wisconsin "The Great Circus Parade"
I worked with a 13 horse Tandum hitch there for 4 years. PERCHERON DRAFT Nothing under 2000 pounds in that hitch.
What you want to look for though is they had a couple goat hitches in the Parade too, One if memory serves was 20 goats.
They had some Clown Carts with single and teams of goats too.
I know they have many historical pictures that they will research for you related to Goats in the Circus over the years might give you some ideas..

In the mean time enjoy the following of my Wagonet and one of my horses that knows how to drive well.

It has been a while since he was last driven, I thing from the picture he might need a refresher course in driving 101

Enjoy

Happy Trails
hihobaron

[Taffy]

Today Curtis King & his girlfriend, Laurie, Debbi & Eldon Otta & I hiked Horse Heaven Hills along the Columbia River in Benton County, WA.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horse_Heaven_Hills

There are breathtaking views everywhere you look.  From a distance most people think it looks barren and desolate.  When you are hiking it you see the huge variety of flora and fauna.

Here's a photo of one of the desert asters we saw today.


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In the below photo Curtis, Laurie and his goats were hiking far in the distance from us.  The photo looks like just a landscape photo until you zoom in and can see the hunter orange of their gear and Curtis' shirt.


   

Here is a photo of my 1 1/2 year old LaMancha, Bourbon.  In the background on the other side of the Columbia River you can see two basalt pillars.  This formation is called Twin Sisters. Geologists say the rock formation is the result of erosion from a great flood near the end of the last Ice Age, about 12,000 to 15,000 years ago.  A Cayuse legend states that the natural monument was formed when Coyote, an animal spirit, fell in love with three sisters, then became jealous of them and turned two into stone. The third was turned into a cave, says the legend.

   

When we stopped for lunch the goats wandered off around a basalt outcropping behind us and out of view.  We heard gunshots in the distance from people target practicing and decided to call the goats.  They came running like a thundering herd, heading downhill right toward us!  At the last minute they put on the brakes and slid to a stop.  Pac-Man and Rudy discovered Debbi was eating a peanut butter and jelly sandwich.  We got some great pictures of her being mobbed for her sandwich before we made the goats behave.

   
   
   

We had an absolutely fantastic day hiking.  What a great way to end my hiking season for the year.  Now - knee surgery on Tuesday and rehab to get it back into shape for next year!