Very basic pack goat question

[sdgoatlady]

Hi!!  I don't pack with my goats ( I plan to when they are older) but I hike with them all the time.  We are on trails and they are usually not leashed or tied, although I always have leashes with me.

Lately my goat hikes have been very slow because my wether Miguel (yearling) insists on getting in front of me and then moving very slowly.  When I attemp to pass him he speeds up to prevent it and then slows down again.  It is very irritating and I need to train him to stay behind me on the trail.

He is generally very sweet and smart, but he is a big boy and can tend to be a bit of a brat.  He is a fast learner.  

So what is the best method to train him to stay behind me on the trail??  Thanks!!

[Jimr]

Hi, I am just a beginner as well, but I think you need to stop him from getting in front of you. Either use a trekking pole to keep him from getting around, or use a squirt bottle and stop him when he tries to pass . Another option is to just change directions when he passes. He needs to learn that you are in charge. Good luck.

[Nanno]

I have this problem with some of my youngsters from time to time. Jimr is right: a stick is a great tool for preventing goats from rushing past you unless the trail is very wide. When we're in a place where I can't prevent them running ahead (wide road, meadow), I'll make life miserable for the goat that tries to walk directly in front of me. I step on his heels, I bump him in the bottom with my knees, or I bop him with a stick until he figures out that directly in front of me is not a pleasant place to walk. A squirt gun is also a really good idea. Notice that the dominant goats in your herd do not tolerate a subordinate walking right in front of them. They butt them hard in the tail to make them move out of the way. When you allow your goat to walk in front of you and set the pace, you are essentially telling him that he's the boss.

I don't particularly like carrying sticks or squirt guns most of the time, but I always wear a hat. I like to use my hat to keep goats behind me on the trail. If I hear one sneaking up too close behind, I take my hat off and swat him in the face until he moves back a few feet. If a goat rushes past, I'll whip my hat off and plunk it over his face so he can't see where he's going. He usually stops immediately and I can put him back behind me. Good luck!

[Sanhestar]

This is  a thing that every goat packer knows. General consensus is that the goat HAS to stay behind. This stems from experience that a goat rushing ahead or cutting corners on steep or winding trails can become a danger to himself, people and other goats/animals.

Normal behaviour for goats favors moving in front of humans, the highest ranking or most expendable (read John Mionczynski's "Pack Goats" on that topic) in the most forward position.

They also show rank by blocking the herd members that follow from overrunning that position but this more often occurs when the herd is moving toward a resource like food, treats or water and not on longer hikes. On hikes the more experienced goats walk in front and secure "the perimeter".

I personally have accepted that my goats walk in front of me and instead of spending the whole hike battling with them to stay behind me I take position on their six. I can walk much less stressed there. To keep them from blocking my path I carry a walking stick and have taught all of them to give me the way when I gently tap them with the stick on their thighs.

They also have learned to stop when I stop - they can see me well enough even walking in front - and to take cues for direction from my body language on crossings: my shoulders, head and body will turn in the direction I want to go and they respond. The experienced goats often stop before a crossing and take a quick look back at me, asking "which way?"

As in all my years neither rope swinging nor stick waving has had any lasting effect I have now started to use the principles of positive reinforcement (clicker training) to teach them "walk beside me". I click for calm, polite walking next to me and have within one hike had better results with than with any other method.

[hihobaron]

sdgoatlady
Hello
I to am in your situation kind of.
My two "Stow away" goats came with "Manners"
I do have a little training advantage from working horses for 38 + years.
Now I have (2) more "Brat" kids born in March running around. Of course still bucklings.
They have not been trailed out off the farm with the big boy's YET.
I will wait on that till after the family jewels come off.
But they exhibit everything you described in your goat.
All of the above "Advice is Good"
For myself I just knee them out of my way or put a boot into them like a Boss Goat would do.
Goats among the herd structure are hard on each other.  You have to be "Boss" Goat" all the time.
Nanno likes her hat method, some people like using a walking stick.
I would /will go with the walking stick method.
Why do you think that there are so many references to the the "Shepards Crook" in the Bible and other historical sources for herding goats and sheep?
I had the advantage of bonded goats to start with even though I had NO Idea of trail manners with goats.  
Note: My old boys I did not go into public(Walkabout) with until I knew the goat boy's had bonded with me.
Around the farm walkabouts if the got in front and stopped they got a boot in the back end.
They learned real fast to stay in trail and not try and lead and block the Boss goat.
The "Kids"after they lost the family jewels will learn the same manners.
Happy Trails
hihobaron Blizzard,Fuzzy.Pete and Sam


  Old Goat Patol.jpg (Size: 288.13 KB / Downloads: 48)

[sdgoatlady]

I have this problem with some of my youngsters from time to time. Jimr is right: a stick is a great tool for preventing goats from rushing past you unless the trail is very wide. When we're in a place where I can't prevent them running ahead (wide road, meadow), I'll make life miserable for the goat that tries to walk directly in front of me. I step on his heels, I bump him in the bottom with my knees, or I bop him with a stick until he figures out that directly in front of me is not a pleasant place to walk. A squirt gun is also a really good idea. Notice that the dominant goats in your herd do not tolerate a subordinate walking right in front of them. They butt them hard in the tail to make them move out of the way. When you allow your goat to walk in front of you and set the pace, you are essentially telling him that he's the boss.

I don't particularly like carrying sticks or squirt guns most of the time, but I always wear a hat. I like to use my hat to keep goats behind me on the trail. If I hear one sneaking up too close behind, I take my hat off and swat him in the face until he moves back a few feet. If a goat rushes past, I'll whip my hat off and plunk it over his face so he can't see where he's going. He usually stops immediately and I can put him back behind me. Good luck!

I'll try the hat trick and report back!

[sdgoatlady]

sdgoatlady
Hello
I to am in your situation kind of.
My two "Stow away" goats came with "Manners"
I do have a little training advantage from working horses for 38 + years.
Now I have (2) more "Brat" kids born in March running around. Of course still bucklings.
They have not been trailed out off the farm with the big boy's YET.
I will wait on that till after the family jewels come off.
But they exhibit everything you described in your goat.
All of the above "Advice is Good"
For myself I just knee them out of my way or put a boot into them like a Boss Goat would do.
Goats among the herd structure are hard on each other.  You have to be "Boss" Goat" all the time.
Nanno likes her hat method, some people like using a walking stick.
I would /will go with the walking stick method.
Why do you think that there are so many references to the the "Shepards Crook" in the Bible and other historical sources for herding goats and sheep?
I had the advantage of bonded goats to start with even though I had NO Idea of trail manners with goats.  
Note: My old boys I did not go into public(Walkabout) with until I knew the goat boy's had bonded with me.
Around the farm walkabouts if the got in front and stopped they got a boot in the back end.
They learned real fast to stay in trail and not try and lead and block the Boss goat.
The "Kids"after they lost the family jewels will learn the same manners.
Happy Trails
hihobaron Blizzard,Fuzzy.Pete and Sam

Thank you so much for your input!!  All of my goats are very bonded to me so that's a very good start.  AND I have no problem whatsoever playing boss goat - I cured Miguel of jumping up on me when I carry his food with some swift kicks and pushes - so I know he can learn.  I just need to start training on the trail instead of chatting with people and enjoying the scenery!!