green horn questions

[PackGoatGreenHorn]

Hi i am testing the waters to see if I want to get into packing or not. Can I take a tame 2 year old numbian and start training it, or do I have to start the goat from scratch? Do you have to use pack saddles or could you modify horse saddle bags to cinch like a saddle? Thank you!

[Nanno]

Welcome! There's no reason at all why you can't train a two-year-old, especially if he's already tame. Nubians have a reputation for being lazy, but each goat is an individual and some Nubians are stellar pack goats.

You definitely need a proper goat packsaddle with a rigid tree to pack more than a negligible amount of weight. Horse saddle bags put the weight right down on the spine, and since they have no tree they will constantly slide to one side and you'll spend your entire hiking trip readjusting them. (Been there, done that, vowed never to use a modified saddlebag again!)

Good luck with your endeavors! I'm glad you found this forum, and please feel free to ask any more questions. Future posts will not have to wait for approval like this one did. (Sorry about that--we had to come up with some way to deter spammers.)

[PackGoatGreenHorn]

Thank you very much! I was wondering why it didn't post just thought I was doing something wrong! I thought I would just be able to get away with that! I found a kit that is reasonably priced to make the saddle yourself! If the goat was lets say 3 and tame how long do you think it would take to train them?

[Nanno]

The do-it-yourself packsaddle kits from Northwest (I assume that's where you saw it) are quite nice. I have one myself. As long as the goat is already tame and bonded with people, it really shouldn't need much training. A goat that trusts people needs almost no time to get used to carrying a pack, and if he's bonded to people he should follow you on the trail without being trained to do so. It's natural behavior for a goat to follow his herd leader (you).

One thing you don't want to do is buy someone else's problem. Not every goat is good at packing. Some simply refuse to follow you on the trail, or they lay down or take themselves home when they get tired. Other goats have rude bad habits like butting, blocking, jumping out of their pens, etc. Sometimes you can find a great deal on an excellent goat (I bought my awesome first packgoat for $25), but other times a cheap price tag is how someone unloads a problem.

[PackGoatGreenHorn]

Ok, thank you I really appreciate the info! I would really like to get into it because my cousin keeps trying to get me to buy horses to hunt with but they are so much more high maintenance and more expensive than goats!

[Nanno]

Goats are definitely easier than horses in almost every way. One thing to keep in mind is that goats should not be kept alone. Even if you only need one goat, you should still get two. They get bored and destructive and can develop behavior problems if they don't have another goat friend to play with.

Where are you located? There might be a packgoat club in your area that you could connect with.

[Sanhestar]

I second that you need two goats. They are herd animals and not happy when kept alone. But, make no mistake, goats are high maintenance, too, just in other ways than horses.

Horses are high maintenance in regard to training and de-sensitizing - something that most goats take in stride when they trust their humans - but rather dumb in regard to figuring out complex problems like opening gates, jumping fences, destroying fences, getting into mischief - areas in which goats excel daily. If you're a person with an innate sense of humor, goats are your animals but if you are annoyed by their antics, stay with horses (pack ponies could maybe be your solution) because goats pick up on your moods and then refuse to cooperate.

Also, while goats are easy to maintain in regard to food on the trail they can become violently sick when mismanaged at home - over-feeding with grain and/or high energy/protein food - and are as prone to getting rumen problems as horses to colics. But you're more likely to find a vet that can treat horses than goats so you'll have to pick up much more do-it-yourself husbandry for goats.

I've had horses for almost 25 years now and goats for over 15 - in comparison we had more goats die suddenly and unexpected than horses. Suddenly mostly because goats don't show illness until it's 2 minutes to twelve (horses average at 5 minutes to twelve) and goats very often just give up (and again, you need a very savvy vet when it comes to goats).

Also, they live much shorter than horses (12-14 years vs. 25-30 years).

It may sound that am overly negative. I love my goats dearly but they've drivven me to the edge over the years, too. And it's heartbreaking to loose them so often. Just make your decision with open eyes.

Sabine

[PackGoatGreenHorn]

Goats are definitely easier than horses in almost every way. One thing to keep in mind is that goats should not be kept alone. Even if you only need one goat, you should still get two. They get bored and destructive and can develop behavior problems if they don't have another goat friend to play with.

Where are you located? There might be a packgoat club in your area that you could connect with.

I am about 30 minutes north of Denver Colorado!

[PackGoatGreenHorn]

I second that you need two goats. They are herd animals and not happy when kept alone. But, make no mistake, goats are high maintenance, too, just in other ways than horses.

Horses are high maintenance in regard to training and de-sensitizing - something that most goats take in stride when they trust their humans - but rather dumb in regard to figuring out complex problems like opening gates, jumping fences, destroying fences, getting into mischief - areas in which goats excel daily. If you're a person with an innate sense of humor, goats are your animals but if you are annoyed by their antics, stay with horses (pack ponies could maybe be your solution) because goats pick up on your moods and then refuse to cooperate.

Also, while goats are easy to maintain in regard to food on the trail they can become violently sick when mismanaged at home - over-feeding with grain and/or high energy/protein food - and are as prone to getting rumen problems as horses to colics. But you're more likely to find a vet that can treat horses than goats so you'll have to pick up much more do-it-yourself husbandry for goats.

I've had horses for almost 25 years now and goats for over 15 - in comparison we had more goats die suddenly and unexpected than horses. Suddenly mostly because goats don't show illness until it's 2 minutes to twelve (horses average at 5 minutes to twelve) and goats very often just give up (and again, you need a very savvy vet when it comes to goats).

Also, they live much shorter than horses (12-14 years vs. 25-30 years).

It may sound that am overly negative. I love my goats dearly but they've drivven me to the edge over the years, too. And it's heartbreaking to loose them so often. Just make your decision with open eyes.

Sabine

Thank you for the info! We were mainly wanting something that didn't eat as much as a horse because we don't go that often and horses are big hay burners. Granted if we got goats it would make it more enjoyable for us to go because we can pack them up and go, and we could put them into a truck and not have to pull a trailer. Goats just seem like they would be a little easier to work with than horses also!

[Nanno]

I am about 30 minutes north of Denver Colorado!

That's actually a really good location! There is pretty large and active 4-H packgoat group in Boulder County. Your best bet would be to contact the Boulder County extension office and get the phone number for the woman in charge of the 4-H packgoat group there. She could be a really good resource for you. Good luck!