what are people feeding babies for the first year?

[Turnercody]

hey there   just curious what others are feeding babies for the first year for optimal growth??  breed will be alpine if that matters   and a side question   when is the best time to castrate? ive heard let them stay intact as long as 6 months   i know theres benefits to leaving them for a time for growth like in horses

[Nanno]

Be prepared for a lot of different opinions on this one. Goats castrated earlier (like in the first 2 months) tend to achieve a greater height, however, it is at a sacrifice of bone in my opinion. Also common wisdom says that early castration sets them up for higher risk of urinary calculi. Most of ours are castrated at 3-4 months. Some of ours have been castrated as late as a year if I used them as breeding bucks for a season. If I'm not going to breed a buckling, I generally castrate whenever they start exhibiting a lot of unwanted buckish behavior. This generally starts anywhere from 3 - 5 months depending on the maturity of the particular buckling.

I don't feed our babies anything particularly special. I will feed some grain and calf manna if they start looking ribby during a growth spurt. However, I have the advantage of owning 40 acres of "goat paradise" where they have an all-you-can-eat buffet of pasture grass, weeds, pine trees, and brushy scrub oak. I feed primarily local grass hay (mountain brome and this year some timothy) with some alfalfa or alfalfa pellets if needed. I fed exclusively alfalfa one winter and regretted it. Too much alfalfa can mess with growth plates in youngsters, and it also blocks selenium and copper uptake if fed in excess. A mix of 2/3 - 3/4 grass with 1/3 - 1/4 alfalfa seems good for our area. And that's one thing to keep in mind. What works in one area may not be the best diet in another.

Be very careful about feeding grain to wethers. If they are sleek and growing well then I generally don't recommend it. Why take the risk if not needed? Some grains formulated for meat goats have ammonium chloride added to combat stones, and some grains also have a coccidiostat added to combat coccidiosis. We've never had a case of coccidiosis so I prefer to give unmedicated grain. When (if) I feed grain, I usually use Purina Goat Chow or something similar. It's a type of sweet feed. Babies get calf manna and alfalfa pellets when they need extra. Usually I only feed grain for a month or two after weaning. I did have a couple of bottle bucklings that got a mix of grain, calf manna, and alfalfa pellets for their first six months or so. Bottle kids don't typically grow as well as dam-raised, so they needed something extra to keep up with the others in the herd, plus they had to be big enough to breed by that fall.

This is just what I do. If you are keeping your goats on smaller acreage, you may have to feed more concentrates and for a longer period than me. People who feed a lot of grain usually end up having to add baking soda to the diet to combat acidosis of the rumen. But baking soda is not generally recommended for wethers since it alkalizes the urine, which in turn makes it more prone to calculi build-up.

[IdahoNancy]

Wean off the bottle at 3 months of age, castrate at 5 to 6 months, Alfalfa for the 1st year with Nutrena Show Edge Goat Feed. It has the 2 to 1 calcium to phosphorus balance, ammonium chloride (AC), and 16% protein. I used calf manna with 25 % protein when my 3 month old got sick. He picked the weight back up nicely.
I do not have acreage and my goats are supplemented with Show Edge Goat Feed most of their lives. I have 3 goats with and age spread of 4 years between each. By design I always have a young one growing and an older packer.
My Mana Pro Goat Minerals which has AC in it are cut in half with kelp meal which has 4% protein in it.

[Deborah Haney]

My babies are 10 months old. I offered my bottle baby grain when he was just learning what food was because it's more palatable. A couple weeks later his sister was weaned so we went and got her and she taught him how to eat hay in 2 days so it's been alfalfa ever since. I feed alfalfa because their breeder fed it to her 100+ goats (does, bucks, and wethers) but I'm thinking of switching to Timothy because they REFUSE to eat the alfalfa stems so I'd rather feed something they can eat all of. 

I use grain and other treats to bribe them onto the milk stand for hoof trimming. Plus peanuts, raisins, cheerios, and banana chips for clicker training. I have their training treats all mixed together so I call it "goat trail mix" :-)

As Nan said, there are advantages to waiting a few months, so it's really up to you. I am of the opinion that UC is a  result of multiple factors including diet, wethering age, and genetic predisposition so wethering a little later can give them a leg up. 

That being said, some methods of wethering become a lot more difficult as they age. Burdizzo should still be fine but banding is harder (you need bigger bands) and possibly more painful when they're older and you'd have to check and see with local vets for other methods. In my area, the only vet within an hour of my house will only surgically castrate w/ general anesthesia and it would cost almost $300. I'm planning to band my next boys as late as the bands will still fit.

[Turnercody]

thank you for the advice and input

[Turnercody]

Wean off the bottle at 3 months of age, castrate at 5 to 6 months, Alfalfa for the 1st year with Nutrena Show Edge Goat Feed. It has the 2 to 1 calcium to phosphorus balance, ammonium chloride (AC), and 16% protein. I used calf manna with 25 % protein when my 3 month old got sick. He picked the weight back up nicely.
I do not have acreage and my goats are supplemented with Show Edge Goat Feed most of their lives. I have 3 goats with and age spread of 4 years between each. By design I always have a young one growing and an older packer.
My Mana Pro Goat Minerals which has AC in it are cut in half with kelp meal which has 4% protein in it.

curious on your ration of the show goat feed??  simply following the instructions on the bag which follows the guidleines of 3% to 5% of bodyweight?

[IdahoNancy]

Not very scientific on my part. I should have mentioned it is a supplement in addition to orchard grass hay.
My 10 year old Oberhali seemed to be loosing weight this winter. Vet says his teeth are fine. At his peak he was 225 lbs and 38in tall. He is on 2 cups a day with 2/3 cup black oil sunflower seeds, some beet pulp and good hay morning and evening. It has not seemed to do much for weigh gain but he stopped loosing. He seems to get loose poop easily so I have to move slow with him. Today he was out kicking it up and being goofy even with his arthritic knees.
My 3 year old and 7 year old get 1 cup a day with the 2/3 cup BOSS with hay in the morning. They don't need it, they like it and it distracts them while the old goat eats. It is great having them use to it when travelling and I like a low trickle of AC and fat in their diet.

[Nicolas3]

Great advice so far. Glad to know about it. LOL!

[Ms_Mudd]

This is my biggest challenge too with my own kids right now, knowing what is right and balanced.
Here is Australia for horses, there is a subscription feed program you can use which balances every aspect of your horses diet and shows where you are deficient so you can play around with adding and dropping things until the diet is balanced. I wish desperately that there was one for goats as getting it right is a huge headache!

My guys were wethered early, so I worry about UC. They are shiny, but get a bit ribby each time they shoot up in height which I hate to see, although I guess I observe the same in my human kids. They get all long and lean for a while in a growth spurt and it all balances out in the end.

So, nothing of value to add here, except  that I share your feeding angst and will watch the thread with interest.

[Nanno]

Ribby is better than fat, especially when they are young and growing. Obviously I don't mean emaciated and a young goat experiencing a heavy growth spurt may need extra calories in his diet for a while, but I like to feel a young goats ribs easily through his coat. If they are overweight they are for more likely to develop UC, leg problems, shortness of wind, lethargy, and other issues associated with obesity. Most wethers have no problem keeping weight once they reach maturity. In fact, they tend to have the opposite problem and may get fat just looking at food if they aren't exercised enough. In my opinion, letting them get too fat as youngsters may set them up for a lifetime of weight problems that aren't easily resolved just by exercising them more as adults.